Yellow Bullet Forums banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I filled my Iron 6.0 what I thought was 3/4” of the way up. Had all my machine work done and assembled the engine. Upon thinking about it, my dumb ass blocked all of the passages for water to get through the block and then go up into the rear of the heads to be able to come forward again. I have about 1/2” left from being a full filled block. So I may as well have just fully filled the block anyways.

My new plan is this…
I bought some adapters that allow me to run 12AN lines into the water pump ports on the block. I blocked off the lower port (which is normally the in) and ran a -12 to the upper port. I’m then going to drill through the back of the heads, and have 12an outlets.
Each bank of the engine is going to be fed with a 20gpm electric pump.

My questions are these… Do you guys think 40gpm and 12an lines will be enough to keep a 1300whp turbo setup cool for light street driving but mostly car being

Do you think water going into the heads and then down into the block water jackets (or what’s left of them) Will be sufficient for light cruising and drag runs? Essentially water is just sitting in the top of the block because there’s no way to circulate flow down past the deck.
If I were to do it again… I would have only done 1/2 fill. But it’s too late for that now.

I will be running a 30 row 2” thick oil cooler with a fan on it as well to hopefully keep oil temps in check.
265475

What are your thoughts?
Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design Automotive exterior Rim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,471 Posts
Super easy on my SBC did 100% fill on block i tapped the rear of each head 1/2 pipe put in a -10 fitting i ran -12 from bottom of the radiator to a 12v bilge pump ran -12 line from there to back of the motor spilt into 2 -10 to back of the heads .Had -10 in front of each head dumping into a log going into the top of the radiator
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Super easy on my SBC did 100% fill on block i tapped the rear of each head 1/2 pipe put in a -10 fitting i ran -12 from bottom of the radiator to a 12v bilge pump ran -12 line from there to back of the motor spilt into 2 -10 to back of the heads .Had -10 in front of each head dumping into a log going into the top of the radiator
Nice that’s all I needed to hear. Thanks man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,154 Posts
I don't think Jim drove that one on the street though it was full tilt race car. If it was mine and solid block I would have considered the following:
1) Piston Squirters

2) .002+ added piston to wall clearance (depending on squirters or not)

3) Extra .005 - .010" ring gap depending on piston design and fuel type.

4) Add -6orb external water fitting below each exhaust port with return line out of the end of the head if block port not possible. This puts the most cooling where the head is the hottest and most likely location to lose head gasket.

5) Run Fuel Hoops and Clark copper gaskets to maximize heat transfer between block and heads as well as allow much more aggressive gasket retention.

6) Added fuel mass. Methanol would be #1 choice, 2nd E90+, 3rd E85
Just my $0.02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't think Jim drove that one on the street though it was full tilt race car. If it was mine and solid block I would have considered the following:
1) Piston Squirters

2) .002+ added piston to wall clearance (depending on squirters or not)

3) Extra .005 - .010" ring gap depending on piston design and fuel type.

4) Add -6orb external water fitting below each exhaust port with return line out of the end of the head if block port not possible. This puts the most cooling where the head is the hottest and most likely location to lose head gasket.

5) Run Fuel Hoops and Clark copper gaskets to maximize heat transfer between block and heads as well as allow much more aggressive gasket retention.

6) Added fuel mass. Methanol would be #1 choice, 2nd E90+, 3rd E85
Just my $0.02
Thank you for the input. All of those seem like good ideas. Unfortunately the only ones implemented are
+.001” on piston to wall.
Ring gap is .029” top ring on 4.030” bore. So I guess it could be like .034. That just seemed too large to me.
Running E85 with 11.0:1 ratios will be the target.

I could play around with the -6orb under the exhaust ports on the factory heads. I’m trying to prevent putting too many holes in the Trick Flow heads though.
Again, thank you for the input and suggestions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Does filling the block really help that much when the top of the cylinders aren’t supported to keep them from breaking? Not a critique, serious question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,154 Posts
I don't think the cylinders breaking at the top is as prevalent anymore since people have learned more about tuning these engines and EFI has improved as well. I think it was happening due to detonation, mostly from too much timing at higher boost levels. IMHO this was a problem with the new LT direct injected engines to the point they changed how the aluminum blocks were made. The LT aluminum blocks have a flanged sleeve that has the flange down about .100" - .150" below the aluminum deck surface to reinforce the upper cylinder especially around the coolant openings. The decks are also a more closed deck design from the LS. We found this difference due to one fire slotting the head and deck. They have been repairable so far but I haven't welded one up that has actually cut into the cylinder liner yet. The placement of the injector makes it act exactly like a cutting torch. So far the ones I have seen are fire slotted exactly 180° from the injector. The DI engines are much higher compression and in my opinion run much closer to detonation than a port injected engine. Sorry to go off on a tangent. I'm not a DI or LT fan but the blocks do offer some great potential as a port injected LS/LT hybrid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
I don't think the cylinders breaking at the top is as prevalent anymore since people have learned more about tuning these engines and EFI has improved as well. I think it was happening due to detonation, mostly from too much timing at higher boost levels. IMHO this was a problem with the new LT direct injected engines to the point they changed how the aluminum blocks were made. The LT aluminum blocks have a flanged sleeve that has the flange down about .100" - .150" below the aluminum deck surface to reinforce the upper cylinder especially around the coolant openings. The decks are also a more closed deck design from the LS. We found this difference due to one fire slotting the head and deck. They have been repairable so far but I haven't welded one up that has actually cut into the cylinder liner yet. The placement of the injector makes it act exactly like a cutting torch. So far the ones I have seen are fire slotted exactly 180° from the injector. The DI engines are much higher compression and in my opinion run much closer to detonation than a port injected engine. Sorry to go off on a tangent. I'm not a DI or LT fan but the blocks do offer some great potential as a port injected LS/LT hybrid.
Good information!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Does filling the block really help that much when the top of the cylinders aren’t supported to keep them from breaking? Not a critique, serious question.
To add, filling a block not necessarily for strength. I mean yes, obviously we’re trying to strengthen it. But the idea is more to keep it stiff. You don’t want the cylinders going out of round when making heavy power. Out of round means blow by and loss of power.

Lots of people will only do a 1/4 to 1/2 pour just to reinforce the bottom of the cylinders (what I SHOULD HAVE done).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
584 Posts
FIlling a motor and dry decking heads is also safer when going down the track to prevent head gasket damage and water leaking on track making it slippery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,154 Posts
I would be careful choosing fill material on an aluminum block. Expansion rates need to be very similar or bad things can happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
I would be careful choosing fill material on an aluminum block. Expansion rates need to be very similar or bad things can happen.
Yeah, possibly worse off than before. Hopefully machine work came after the fill also. I pinned my deck but I stayed well away from filling my ls3 after seeing the possible consequences.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
I would be careful choosing fill material on an aluminum block. Expansion rates need to be very similar or bad things can happen.

what's best for the alum stuff? I've got a little 5.3 alum block and thought about a 1/2 fill Dave Riolo has sum alum impreg epoxy stuff that sounds good.

He's been around for a while. I'm scared to mess with a block fill and think I might shy away. Looking to do a 1400 hp build and might not need it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,154 Posts
I like the Gen3 blocks better for big power personally. I don't like the cut thru main webs at the bottom of the cylinders. Siamese vs non-siamese is also something to consider. Dave has been using that epoxy for offshore race engines for a really long time. I used it to fill my Brodix aluminum block in my Chevy II. No surprises so far. 100% fill with nearly zero shrinkage. It will take 2 "kits" to do 100% fill. Dave is a straight shooter so if you have any reservations by all means discuss them with him because the one thing it isn't is reversable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Can you PM me your phone number or I can email you if you prefer.

I need to build a short block and folks up here I don't think are anywhere near your level of expertise with turbo engines

I'm interested in doing 1/2 head studs, and the fuel hoops on a 5.3 ls gen 4 block

here's what I'm thinking of for the short block

lsa crank (have it already)
molnar power adder rods
diamond pistons

I'd like to bring you the crank and block and buy the rods and pistons, bearings, and have you do a short block for me and degree the cam so I can install it and boost a muv

this is going in a car with an older Haltech Platinum S2000 with dual wb, and 8 channel egt on a TTiX turbo setup for my street strip c5

if you have good recommendations for Haltech installers and tuners much appreciated!

car is modded with an RPM 4l60e stage 6 trans with precision 3200 multi disk conv.



Thanks!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,154 Posts
Just send me another email to the address in my signature. I will know something more definite about when I will have my shop expansion done and my Mainline Pro Hub dyno and my DTS engine dyno installed. I currently only build a limited number of engines each year I am leaning more towards EFI sales/installation/tuning over just building engines. Equipment overhead is insane and I have a huge investment in this 6000HP hub dyno.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top