Has anyone ever thought about it?
I see what you are saying, especially in the early part of the run...but as the run goes on, you should start to see where the timing is adjusting itself for the most power. This is why you may delay the funtionality until later in the run in this type of car.My thoughts are that would be hard to do effectively on a 2000 HP small tired car, and it would be a lot of work to get anything out of it. You just constantly fight traction on something like that, making it hard for that to work effectively/properly. .
Would that really be the best way? I think that timing advanced TOO far would increase cylinder pressure MORE than a properly timed motor, it's just that the peak cylinder pressure would not be at the best point of crank angle, and not beneficial to power. Rate of acceleration would be the best indicator to power, in my opinion.I think if you had some type of in cylinder pressure measurement, you'd maybe be able to do something with enough development, but that would take a lot of effort and sharp people.
Sure that's simpler...this would, imo, be a better way to get to the perfect timing number WITHOUT HURTING PARTS. If you do track testing and advance the timing, make a pass, and the mph slows, then you've lost power...and possibly could have hurt it already. With this concept, the controller would never allow it to hurt parts, as real time acceleration rates (or more importantly the LOSS of acceleration) would cause the timing to retard IN REAL TIME.Just pretty much simpler to change the timing on a combo, and see how it responds. On the dyno, or on the track.
How? Dial in .2* above and .2* below the timing that you would run normally...that way you are barely even using it. Slowly open the window as you feel comfortable. No work at all really...besides a couple key-strokes on a computer.I think it would be too much work to rely on it. ]
You're not getting me. I'll give you an example....How? Dial in .2* above and .2* below the timing that you would run normally...that way you are barely even using it. Slowly open the window as you feel comfortable. No work at all really...besides a couple key-strokes on a computer.
Personnally, I think it would be far more dangerous that most people do...which is listening to what, "their buddy's timing is with X amount of nitrous" even though their buddies combo is completely different than their own.
What I'm talking about has nothing to do with a knock sensor. It also doesn't take the place of reading plugs or time slips. All that it does is allow a small controller-based change to the timing that you can datalog to see if increased (or decreased) timing is causing the motor to accelerate more. No knock sensors involved.You're not getting me. I'll give you an example....
The new Ford Coyote 5.0 has 2 knock sensors that Ford probably has millions wrapped up in. They work AWESOME. But not AWESOME enough, because it can't hear cylinder #8 good enough. So if #8 is knocking and not other cylinders are knocking, you won't catch it.
And that is with millions in Ford R&D. Knock detection is very advanced and I don't see it working out well unless people start working on kits for specific combinations, which they won't.
Knock sensors work great on OEM stuff because in general the engines are very quiet. Try getting a KS to tell the difference between knock and the other 10,000 noises coming out of a high power race engine. Add a power adder and it only gets tougher.
What I'm talking about has nothing to do with a knock sensor. It also doesn't take the place of reading plugs or time slips. All that it does is allow a small controller-based change to the timing that you can datalog to see if increased (or decreased) timing is causing the motor to accelerate more. No knock sensors involved.
EXACTLY what I'm talking about...acceleration rate. And yes, you have the timeslip after the run is complete. You have this REAL TIME during the run. Essentially, it's allowing the MOTOR to determine where the timing should be, NOT the user.Well a closed loop system requires some feedback. When talking about timing, this feedback comes from a knock sensor.
What are you suggesting you use for feedback? Accel rate? You already have that. It's called a timeslip.
Ok, so let's use an example....EXACTLY what I'm talking about...acceleration rate. And yes, you have the timeslip after the run is complete. You have this REAL TIME during the run.
Much more expensive versions of this are used today and would really be the best way to do some tuning. VERY PRICEYLate 80’s Nissan turbo V6 engines sold in Japan and Europe had strain gauge washers under the spark plugs that measured cylinder pressure and an ignition computer that managed the timing for each cylinder. The system adjusted timing for the next time an individual cylinder fired, based on the pressure peak location the last time that particular cylinder fired. I think it had a target of 15-16° ATDC for peak cylinder pressure and also detected knock. Been a long time since I read about it and I never saw one. I guess some of those used engines imported from Japan had the washers and the wire harness on them, but I never saw them. Google it.
This would only work if you had a base acceleration map to start with. I'd like to see you give it a shot and prove me wrong, but I don't think that would work well and/or there would be better ways of doing it IMO. Even though I don't like aftermarket knock sensors, I think that would work better.Here is an example: Between the blue and red lines, my motor is accelerating 753rpms in 1 second. If the controller feeds it .5* of timing advance (my added blue lines/dots), and the motor increases to 780 rpms in 1 second (my added green line), then it liked the timing, and you can feel more confident in adding that .5* to the baseline timing for the next run. Do you see the delta sign showing the rpm increase? Also, the slew number? Power Grid already has the capability, it just needs a tiny amount of software written in to make it happen. If the controller added the timing, and it resulted in NO increase in acceleration rate, or a DECREASE of acceleration rate, then the controller can pull that timing out, and go the other direction (retard the timing). The box would be doing this in real time, faster than we can think...so it would be capable of changing timing as needed before any detonation had a chance of hurting anything. Besides, you set that timing window as tight as you feel comfortable.