Yellow Bullet Forums banner
1 - 20 of 77 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, this isn't a MPFI vs carburetor question/debate LOL. I am looking at the Holley 2x4 4500 Terminator X setup (#550-1081). I am curious what everyone's thoughts are on this vs 2x Dominator Carburetors. Mostly interested in if the EFI system can compete on power numbers alone in a race-only application.

Probably unlikely, but has anyone done back to back dyno or, more importantly, track testing between the two in a fairly high horsepower N/A combo? I know Blankenship is or was running the same system in NMCA 10.5.

I have always been of the belief that a carburetor will make more peak power. I think these two could possibly be close and the EFI obviously has much more tuning capability. Carburetor system would be belt driven distributor with MSD Grid and EFI would have individual coils.

Application will be a N/A SBF in the 460" range, billet tunnel ram, canted valve head, Q16, 9000rpm shift points.

Thanks for any info. I am not an EFI guru.
White Light Product Camera accessory Automotive lighting
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,354 Posts
Not a hard question to answer.....yes. Just look at the ratings of what the system is designed to be able to supply. Carbs still have advantages, but FI is quickly overcoming those...If you're worried about peak power, there's cars out there making well north of 2k hp running FI.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,841 Posts
Oh crap... what are you up to now Zach? :ROFLMAO:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Not a hard question to answer.....yes. Just look at the ratings of what the system is designed to be able to supply. Carbs still have advantages, but FI is quickly overcoming those...If you're worried about peak power, there's cars out there making well north of 2k hp running FI.....
My question isn’t whether it will support the power or not. I have EFI combos over 2500hp. My question is one vs the other at the track, which one wins?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,354 Posts
My question isn’t whether it will support the power or not. I have EFI combos over 2500hp. My question is one vs the other at the track, which one wins?
Both. Carbs win every day, FI wins every day. Carbs are easy, something goes wrong they can be fixed at the track, plenty of parts available if needed. FI is getting easier, substantially more reliable than in the past, I have yet to see anybody have issues at the track. And with the popularity of FI, having issues at the track is not as big of a deal as it was in the earlier days as there is a lot more support.

I guess the best way to answer the question is it doesn't matter anymore......You'll likely still see a lot more carbs in the winners circle than FI simply because there are more out there, not because of any power advantages or anything else. But that's also just bracket racing....Get into the heads up/outlaw stuff, FI is more prevalent.....so pick your poison
 

·
Registered
'73 Camaro NETO/N
Joined
·
335 Posts

·
Ask me about my Weiner!..
Joined
·
9,001 Posts
I’ve been running EFI for 20 years. If carb was better I’d be running that. Lots of comparison videos on YouTube on the subject too, with dyno runs. Simple way to put it, they both do the same thing. My take from them, they’re equal on the race track.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,732 Posts
You would only be talking a few HP either way at most and that's if the carb is tuned perfectly, That being said I would have to give the edge to EFI not because it makes more power than a properly setup and tuned carb but because it's ability to keep fuel ratio more consistent as weather changes that a carb isn't capable of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,592 Posts
You would only be talking a few HP either way at most and that's if the carb is tuned perfectly, That being said I would have to give the edge to EFI not because it makes more power than a properly setup and tuned carb but because it's ability to keep fuel ratio more consistent as weather changes that a carb isn't capable of.
Not true at all .If carb close it will adapt with the weather to some extent.Efi has to be programmed to what the guy thinks it will need.I would take a good carb tune guy over a efi guess it guy any day of the week.We have tried every efi under the sky and always went faster with carbs.Not just once but always!!
 

·
Registered
'73 Camaro NETO/N
Joined
·
335 Posts
Not true at all .If carb close it will adapt with the weather to some extent.Efi has to be programmed to what the guy thinks it will need.I would take a good carb tune guy over a efi guess it guy any day of the week.We have tried every efi under the sky and always went faster with carbs.Not just once but always!!
Clearly, you haven’t worked with Mike Thompson. I could guarantee he’ll make more power with Holley EFI vs any carb you can throw at him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,732 Posts
Not true at all .If carb close it will adapt with the weather to some extent.Efi has to be programmed to what the guy thinks it will need.I would take a good carb tune guy over a efi guess it guy any day of the week.We have tried every efi under the sky and always went faster with carbs.Not just once but always!!
So you yourself have used all these systems and tuned them yourself? Or someone else does it for you?


For example, Your first run is at noon and it's 90* with high humidity and sometime during the day a front comes through and the temp is now 80* and low humidity, Exactly how does the carb compensate for weather changes by itself?

Why does one have to guess? The Holley system will run the fuel ratio you asked it to? You want 11.0:1 at wide open throttle, You program it and it uses the o2 sensor and computer to adjust fuel to get there, it will continue to adjust as the weather changes, you do nothing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,256 Posts
So you yourself have used all these systems and tuned them yourself? Or someone else does it for you?


For example, Your first run is at noon and it's 90* with high humidity and sometime during the day a front comes through and the temp is now 80* and low humidity, Exactly how does the carb compensate for weather changes by itself?

Why does one have to guess? The Holley system will run the fuel ratio you asked it to? You want 11.0:1 at wide open throttle, You program it and it uses the o2 sensor and computer to adjust fuel to get there, it will continue to adjust as the weather changes, you do nothing.
Someone has never heard of "closed loop"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,267 Posts
IMO all depends how good the carbs your comparing them too are. If they are good pieces, intake manifold design complements the carbs, they will be pretty much even. If the carbs are left field, intakes off, engine isnt operated in range to keep carbs happy, then the EFI will shine.

Injection might be alittle easier to try and use c45 if you are interested in that.
 

·
Registered
HQ Holden coupe. 383 sbc. TH350. 3.89:1 9”
Joined
·
122 Posts
Never used aftermarket efi. Holding AFR is superior with efi no doubt. Can the atomization be tinkered with like it can be on a carb with various boosters and emulsion though? I see on Sniper tb the fuel is discharged around the perimeter of the throttle bore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,592 Posts
Clearly, you haven’t worked with Mike Thompson. I could guarantee he’ll make more power with Holley EFI vs any carb you can throw at him.
Clearly if I did I would be throwing tbs @ him because my carbs would still out run it!!!We have clearly spent 10s of 1000s on that garbage and efi gurus.And we are clearly done with that efi garbage
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,592 Posts
So you yourself have used all these systems and tuned them yourself? Or someone else does it for you?


For example, Your first run is at noon and it's 90* with high humidity and sometime during the day a front comes through and the temp is now 80* and low humidity, Exactly how does the carb compensate for weather changes by itself?

Why does one have to guess? The Holley system will run the fuel ratio you asked it to? You want 11.0:1 at wide open throttle, You program it and it uses the o2 sensor and computer to adjust fuel to get there, it will continue to adjust as the weather changes, you do nothing.
We have bought and used multiple systems had supposed some of best gurus in efi work on them,we have have dynoed multiple deals and learned them ourselfs.Still back to carbs every time!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,592 Posts
Clearly, you haven’t worked with Mike Thompson. I could guarantee he’ll make more power with Holley EFI vs any carb you can throw at him.
Maybe you should hit mike up,Our shit runs what the dyno says!!Maybe he can save yours!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,592 Posts
Someone has never heard of "closed loop"
Sure I have.Keep using it to make changes and you keep slowing down.It cant predict track or air .So once again carbs will compensate for small changes.Every round guys dicking around with laptop.Carbs we are not !
 
1 - 20 of 77 Posts
Top