Yellow Bullet Forums banner

21 - 40 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,257 Posts
What came first the chicken or the egg? This debate will never end, anyone want to discuss how to check pinion angle? lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
We have played around with up to a 56 jet in the first stage, a 2nd kit on top of that. We have accidentally missed on the lean side, wide bands showing as lean as 15.2:1 on some holes and not had any problems. Just doesn’t make the power as good as when it’s 12.5-12.8 range.

Most of our issues on a big hit have been when we are too rich.

Until lately, I’ve always been a guy whom believed the rich side of things was healthy and safe. Now, I’d like it to be perfect, but if we are not sure, we will shoot for lean side a bit.

Timing is very sensitive for us on that much nitrous too. Both freak’n sides of it, too much and too little.

We are learning. We may change our mind again after winter dyno R&D work. We are going to run 8 wide bands, 8 egt’s, and 8 cylinder pressure transducers as well as header pressure sensors and intake. Probably data overload, but hope to learn a few things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,015 Posts
Probably need to have the chambers softened some (or more) to help get rid of the quench to open the tubing window up, that would be my first thought.

As for lean/rich, if it was me I would rather be lean and no timing then fat and over timed

Fat and overtimed will lift ring lands, and I guarantee be a big problem once the oil gets in the chamber which it will cause. Lean, as long as it doesn’t get hot enough to get the plugs (if it does then the heat could have caused the rings to loose tension and you’re into the oil issue again) you’ll be ok.... too much timing on either case is bad news.

Leave timing low. If the plugs aren’t clean, I generally will add a little nitrous to clean the plugs up. If the things grossly fat then pull fuel. Never add timing to try to clean a tuneup up.

My opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Probably need to have the chambers softened some (or more) to help get rid of the quench to open the tubing window up, that would be my first thought.

As for lean/rich, if it was me I would rather be lean and no timing then fat and over timed

Fat and overtimed will lift ring lands, and I guarantee be a big problem once the oil gets in the chamber which it will cause. Lean, as long as it doesn’t get hot enough to get the plugs (if it does then the heat could have caused the rings to loose tension and you’re into the oil issue again) you’ll be ok.... too much timing on either case is bad news.

Leave timing low. If the plugs aren’t clean, I generally will add a little nitrous to clean the plugs up. If the things grossly fat then pull fuel. Never add timing to try to clean a tuneup up.

My opinion.
I agree totally
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,015 Posts
How do those sensors work? I heard about them but never actually seen them on anything... hole into the top of the chamber for it or ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,234 Posts
We have played around with up to a 56 jet in the first stage, a 2nd kit on top of that. We have accidentally missed on the lean side, wide bands showing as lean as 15.2:1 on some holes and not had any problems. Just doesn’t make the power as good as when it’s 12.5-12.8 range.

Most of our issues on a big hit have been when we are too rich.

Until lately, I’ve always been a guy whom believed the rich side of things was healthy and safe. Now, I’d like it to be perfect, but if we are not sure, we will shoot for lean side a bit.

Timing is very sensitive for us on that much nitrous too. Both freak’n sides of it, too much and too little.

We are learning. We may change our mind again after winter dyno R&D work. We are going to run 8 wide bands, 8 egt’s, and 8 cylinder pressure transducers as well as header pressure sensors and intake. Probably data overload, but hope to learn a few things.

can you elaborate on this part of your quote for me? What are you referring to by too low?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
That TFX setup looks expensive, I noticed they don't list prices. Would be an awesome tool to work with though. Your using all those sensors on the car or someone's dyno?
We have both available actually. But, mostly run on dyno. Expensive, yes. My buddies dyno room is pretty bad ass and was not easy on the wallet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
How do those sensors work? I heard about them but never actually seen them on anything... hole into the top of the chamber for it or ?
The TFX transducers replace the spark plugs sir.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
can you elaborate on this part of your quote for me? What are you referring to by too low?

Yes sir I can, but realize I’m not going to debate anyone. Not meaning that toward you, just what I’m going to say people will jump in and tell me I’m wrong. I did not diagnose this, my team members did. They could be wrong. I could be wrong.

We ran a big tune up, 56 jet with another stage on top of that. It did not go well. We were on a killer run, I grabbed the 2nd gun, the tone of the engine sounded funny, but seemed to be pulling hard. I stayed in it. It fireballed at the stripe. It went way rich when the 2nd kit came on and was under timed. The funny tone was bad detonation.

True or not true, not sure. But, we fixed it, put 8 degrees more timing in it and leaned it out. Boy, it ran perfect after that with no sings of detonation. We have also grabbed the 3rd kit problem free - but only once.

We have spayed a lot of nitrous through a 580ci engine. Possibly toward the upper end of what’s been done. But, we are still learning and working through trophies. Someday we may figure it out.

Sorry for the long post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,451 Posts
If you have a decent setup tuned/timed correctly for the power level and go a little lean you will not see much damage unless is sneezes on launch.

If you have a combo that was overtimed to compensate for a fat tune and go lean it will bang itself to pieces from detonation.

If you follow this advice and hurt shit.....I was wrong ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,234 Posts
Yes sir I can, but realize I’m not going to debate anyone. Not meaning that toward you, just what I’m going to say people will jump in and tell me I’m wrong. I did not diagnose this, my team members did. They could be wrong. I could be wrong.

We ran a big tune up, 56 jet with another stage on top of that. It did not go well. We were on a killer run, I grabbed the 2nd gun, the tone of the engine sounded funny, but seemed to be pulling hard. I stayed in it. It fireballed at the stripe. It went way rich when the 2nd kit came on and was under timed. The funny tone was bad detonation.

True or not true, not sure. But, we fixed it, put 8 degrees more timing in it and leaned it out. Boy, it ran perfect after that with no sings of detonation. We have also grabbed the 3rd kit problem free - but only once.

We have spayed a lot of nitrous through a 580ci engine. Possibly toward the upper end of what’s been done. But, we are still learning and working through trophies. Someday we may figure it out.

Sorry for the long post.

That's on some gangster shit for sure......you put 8 in on the second kit tune or total???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
That's on some gangster shit for sure......you put 8 in on the second kit tune or total???
8 more total between both kits sir
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
It was detonating by being too low in timing?
Wow 8 degrees more timing?

Thank you for your info.
Our belief, was under timed and too fat.

Under timed - Steve Johnson assessed
Too rich - plugs and wide bands

Pretty good lick right here after we got her tuned up. First off the trailer, had a progress it a lil, but was rolling.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
This pass was on point, turned second kit on.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Made a pass once with the fuel solenoid disconnected, in a rush to make the next round. Car sounded different, but wasn't much off on numbers. Thought it hurt a plug. Plugs looked a touch cleaner but were good. Thats when we found the the plug not connected. 90 pill in a big shot plate. 16* total on a sbc. Hooked it back up and off we went. I'm a firm believer in lean and mean with little timing. No where near the level of spray the OP is suggesting though.
I have a friend who runs dragsters, injected BBC with a 300hp jetted plate for a boost near the finish line. He had an enrichment pump problem and ran without any enrichment fuel, he picked up et and now runs without enrichment fuel.

Another friend who runs meth/meth forgot to turn his fuel pump on. The engine responded like never before and he folded his mono wheelie bar up.

This has me thinking timing is critically important while the fuel curve is less of an issue.
 
21 - 40 of 46 Posts
Top