With all the talk about BBC hyd roller lifters, and the love then hate for Morel hyd roller lifters and the noise they allegedly make during operation I have a question for those who know and will give an unbiased answer.
My cam supplier sent me some Morel 5210PF lifters, {when last we spoke they were using Gaterman} The engine is BBC lower rpm 5500ish Max,, Street use mild performance.. Longevity is one of the primary considerations. TIA for all replies
Jack.
5210PF is not an Morel number. Street series BBC Morel hyd roller lifters are 5374. .700" wheel lifter good for up to .375" lobe lift, 150/400# spring rates. Good for up to 6500 rpm. We have shipped 550 sets since January 1 of 2022 this year. 2 sets returned to Morel for warranty review.
I think a lot of the noise that's generated is because of the cam lobe aggression, not the lifter. Not a Chevy builder, but on a lot of the Ford stuff, the more aggressive lobes sound like sewing machines.
Do you think the noise from aggressive lobe profiles is the lifter plunger "bottoming out"? How about heavy spring pressures, would it cause the same issue and noise?
I have an LS7 with factory GM lifters (from the dealer, not eBay or Amazon) that are essentially the same lifter as a BBC.
I am running a BTR cam (230/246 @ .050" and .644"/.630" lift) that isn't that aggressive and the lifter noise is awful.
The springs are BTR Platinum with 160 lbs. on the seat and 400 lbs. open.
How about 1.8:1 rockers? Does it put more work on the lifter?
Do you think the noise from aggressive lobe profiles is the lifter plunger "bottoming out"? How about heavy spring pressures, would it cause the same issue and noise?
I have an LS7 with factory GM lifters (from the dealer, not eBay or Amazon) that are essentially the same lifter as a BBC.
I am running a BTR cam (230/246 @ .050" and .644"/.630" lift) that isn't that aggressive and the lifter noise is awful.
The springs are BTR Platinum with 160 lbs. on the seat and 400 lbs. open.
How about 1.8:1 rockers? Does it put more work on the lifter?
I don't think it's plunger noise, I think it's actually valve noise. The more aggressive lobes jerk the valve off the seat, hold them open longer, then slam them back down. If you've ever heard an engine on a Spintron, you'd be surprised at the NVH that you hear from valvetrain.
I would think that a lifter that's losing plunger control would be "ticky" instead of "sewing machine-y".
Post up your advertised durations and I can give you a good idea of whether it's because of the lobe or if it's something else. Just because the .050" duration is on the low side doesn't mean the lobe isn't aggressive.
I've used Morel from as far back as 2004 with some very aggressive cams (for hyd roller), aluminum rockers, as much as .760 lift and 680# open pressure (.904 hyd lifter) and 7600 rpm. Had zero issues but lately, IMO something has changed @ Morel. For one thing, lifters don't measure like they used to and there are just way too many complaints about noise for it to be end user. Last hyd roller 532 I did with Morels had noise issues and since then I've decided to switch to Johnson. Just don't trust the Morel's. I'm building two Gen6 509ci off shore engines right now that will get Johnsons. Cams are .64's", 25's @ .05, 6000 rpm max. Mercury Racing uses them in their $85K 700SCI blown 700hp offshore engine with a 1 yr warranty. Good enough for me.
Bushed Hydraulic lifter was a call in idea with Johnson..6-9 months later 💥. Johnson is Good people 👍 😀
There's been a post or two on noise and a similar switch.......
If a noisy lifter from Morel has been used I've read of another lifter of the same brand being quieter....
It's certain model numbers that made noise.
Ls world talk.
Actually in the last 2 years our sales of hyd roller lifter have doubled on LS/SBC/BBC/SBF/Pontiac.....but the number of sets return has stayed about the same. So this means the percentage of what has been sold compared to returns is even less.
Just got a blanket PO for LS lifters from a customer that has bought over 2000 sets in 9 months...not one return..so they just ordered another 6 months.
Actually in the last 2 years our sales of hyd roller lifter have doubled on LS/SBC/BBC/SBF/Pontiac.....but the number of sets return has stayed about the same. So this means the percentage of what has been sold compared to returns is even less.
Just got a blanket PO for LS lifters from a customer that has bought over 2000 sets in 9 months...not one return..so they just ordered another 6 months.
I was told that some of the lower cost Morel hydraulic lifters have parts inside not actually made by Morel, and there are tolerance issues that can cause noise.
I don't think any company has a 100% success rate. Just like anything else, there's a bell curve that's applicable.
I think I've seen a bad lifter from almost every lifter company out there. One that sticks out the most is a Ford Racing OEM style hydraulic roller lifter. I went to prime the pump on the stand and one pushrod/rocker absolutely GUSHED oil, like someone turned a faucet on LOL
A lot of 'aggressive cams' like the Comp XE grinds have a reputation for being noisy, with the lobe itself being blamed for the noise. These lobes need stronger springs to control the valve train & in my opinion it is this, not the lobe per se, that causes the noise. The stronger springs bleed the lifter down, creating a gap as the valve closes, which gets heard as noise. Add high ratio rockers to the mix & the tendency to use thinner oils & the gap gets even bigger....
A lot of 'aggressive cams' like the Comp XE grinds have a reputation for being noisy, with the lobe itself being blamed for the noise. These lobes need stronger springs to control the valve train & in my opinion it is this, not the lobe per se, that causes the noise. The stronger springs bleed the lifter down, creating a gap as the valve closes, which gets heard as noise. Add high ratio rockers to the mix & the tendencyto use thinner oils & the gap gets even bigger....
Per the data, the last 3 years of Morel sales have increased 5X over the previous 3 years and returns are a lesser percentage of total sales. The data shows the product is better.
I have found some in stock Johnson Hylift #2341 But I can find nothing on the web, which is not that surprising given my computer illiteracy. Anyone have any input on these pls?
Hylift are ok, not great. The only hyd roller I would ever use is Johnson. Learned my lesson with the Morels and the salesman behind the hype. That salesman says he sells thousands of sets per year although his retail price is amongst the highest out there. You won’t ever have any doubts about going with Johnson. Quiet and very high quality. Take time and find a set. In the long run it will save you time and money.
I run Johnson hydraulic short travel lifters in my LS engine, 7200rpm and 446lbs open springs. They are very quiet compared to some of the other Hyd. Roller lifters I have heard.
I have had good luck with Crower hydraulic rollers. I have had trouble with Morel as well. Tried to get Johnsons once, they were unavailable at the time.
Hunting yes...it's crazy busy and I am glad you recognize the hours we put in at Straub Tech for our customers.
Yes Morel missed that lifter without the hole, so did Lunati and the engine builder that assembled and ran the engine as you clearly see the wear on the lifter body from run time.
I'm glad your humble enough to post that picture and take responsibility for missing that upon assembly. Morel has taken the step to install cameras in the assembly room for final inspection on all parts to help prevent this from happing again.
I clearly state that Morel is one of the responsible parties for this situation. Lunati shares responsibility as does the person that assembled the engine. If they got paid to do the assembly then part of it is checking stuff. Don't know of anyone who would hire an engine builder that didn't check stuff.
Morel problems are supposedly super super rare. I've bought two sets ever and both clattered so bad. What are the chances of that? If you went by some peoples numbers I'd be hit by lightning first. Well... I switched to solids and have been running them fine since. Scrap metal lifters.
Sorry to hear about your issues with Morel hydraulic lifters. It is a shame because Morel BBC solid roller lifters like Ultra Pro 4845 are a very reliable product. Hate to see a company get a bad name in general for one style of product.
The funny thing is one of posters on here that spreading false news about Morel called Morel in January/February of this year to buy direct and was told no. So the question begs to ask....Why are you wanting to go direct when your trying to tell the world they got issues?
So Ed Curtis has been a friend and customer of mine since 1996. He has bought his Morel hyd rollers from me since they came out with the first ones around 2003. In over 20 years that Ed has bought lifters he has had 1 pair of 5879 Ultra pro lifters he sent in for warranty and 1 set of SB Ford 5323. Not going say how many Ed buys a year but the number is ALOT of hyd roller lifters and virtually no issues.
ATK is a customer of mine and has bought hundreds of sets of Morels from me since 2014. I can find 2 sets they have sent in for warranty. So again, virtually no issues.
Mark Jones, Vortecpro, buys his Morel lifters from me. I asked him about 3 months ago when he was ordering more lifters....any issues. He said yes, 1 set. Again he has bought alot of lifter from me over the years.
All 3 are respected individuals and companies. All use Morel with pretty much no issue.
My question is...."Why do some have all these problems and others don't?
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