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Discussion Starter #1
I am just curious if anyone is running efi, e85 and non Intercooled? I see a lot of blow thru cars running without an intercooler, but not much with EFI..

I am sure the IAT's are prob going to be high, but was wondering if anyone has any real world numbers on a street/strip car on e85..

Any input/thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks
Jeremy
 

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I've run E85 for a few years and over the winter removed the intercooler and am now running it W/O. After studying up on latent heat some more I decided it was unnecessary.

It picked up a couple # of boost and the performance is higher than before.
The first time out it flashed to 30# and the boat was about out of control. I had turn the boost down.

The IAT is before the injectors of course, I read the datalog and at 30# boost the IAT was at 229 degrees.
I turned it down to 21# and the IAT was at 201 degrees.
I didn't think those numbers were too bad but of course I have no way of telling what the actual number is after the fuel vaporizes.

I run the WOT tune at close to the rich best torque # to get all the cooling I can. .72 lambda

Over the winter I also picked up a set of 225# Atomizer injectors and I feel that improved overall performance too over the previous 160# injectors.
 

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I also run a 418W with an 88mm turbo using the FAST XFI on E85...no intercooler.

Don't get freaked out about the inlet temps, the fuel has such a huge tuning window....now that I have switched....I would never go back. I love e85 and have ran over 20psi with no issues. I have also screwed up and leaned the car out to the point that it should have lifted a gasket, but since the E85 is so forgiving it was fine.

E85 is very close to Alcohol for latent of heat......and its working for David Wolfe to make 3500hp with no intercooler.
 

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I also run a 418W with an 88mm turbo using the FAST XFI on E85...no intercooler.

Don't get freaked out about the inlet temps, the fuel has such a huge tuning window....now that I have switched....I would never go back. I love e85 and have ran over 20psi with no issues. I have also screwed up and leaned the car out to the point that it should have lifted a gasket, but since the E85 is so forgiving it was fine.

E85 is very close to Alcohol for latent of heat......and its working for David Wolfe to make 3500hp with no intercooler.
nice... something I need to think about...
 

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latent heat for e85 is 330 btu/lb. methanol is 473. meth has 43% more latent heat than e85. also you're using 44% more meth per event than e85. that's not very close at all. (all said and done, e85 has about 1/2 the latent heat as methanol).
3

Well said, when I was saying it was close to Methonal I was referencing the chart below. When compared to convential gasoline, ethanol is closer to methanol than it is to gasoline.

Regardless of the #'s, it works and has a huge tuning window compared to gas......it also works well without an intercooler which was the original point of discussion.




Heat of vaporization
Gasoline 0.36 MJ/kg
Butanol 0.43 MJ/kg
Ethanol 0.92 MJ/kg
Methanol 1.2 MJ/kg
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks fells for the insite...I am glad to see people testing the limits of e85...I intend on running a twin setup and if I can get away with less tubing and weight off the front of the car it will be beneficial...I will be sure to update this thread and I get closer with my setup.

Jeremy
 

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Any more thoughts on this? anyone running into issues non-intercooled on E85?
 

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The reason it works better on blow thru is the difference in the time it spends in the intake tract compared to efi.

Think about the distance difference between a blowthrough and efi engine from the introduction point of the fuel to the chamber.

Couple injectors up by.the throttle body would make the temp drop.equal to what a blowthru can do.
 

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i have been pondering a scheme, tell me if you guys think it will work. run a hose from the pressuer side of the fuel regulator to a nitrous(fuel) solenoid feeding a meth nozzle. have the noid open under boost. this way the e85 will have some time to pull heat out. very little weight added to car. will the pressure from the fuel system be enough to make a meth nozzle work?
 

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Not e85 but E98 non-intercooled, we have went to 40psi at 10:1 compression with no ill affects at all. Just a lot of clean power with EFI! We shoot for .68-.7 lambda at this level.
What kind of IAT's were you seeing? Tubo? Intake/TB setup? Thank you.
 

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Quick it might if it was a super small nozzle.... The better bet would be a couple injectors with a stand alone controller like sdsefi sells. Then youd have adjustment capability.
 

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Quick it might if it was a super small nozzle.... The better bet would be a couple injectors with a stand alone controller like sdsefi sells. Then youd have adjustment capability.

I have the stock injectors from my ls engine. Will those work for what you listed above? I think they are 24lb, how many should I use to cool things down? If they are mounted further away do the temps drop more?

The efi system Im using can do staged injectors so that shouldnt be an issue

The reason i asked about the meth nozzle is I setup a "snow" kit on a buddys car and the nozzle made a prefectly atomized cone, most injectors are more of a stream than a cone, from what I've witnessed.

I have most all the parts to go either way just deciding on which way to go. I was kinda wanting to try the meth nozzles for simplicitys (sp??) sake but unsure what pressure is required to make them work
 

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Most of those meth pumps are capable of 150-200 psi. Double to triple of your fuel system. If your ecu has that capability youre golden. Just buy the stands drom SDS and use -6 line to connect em. E85 weighs 7.45 to 7.55 lb per gallon so a 24 lb injector would equal a 3.2 gph nozzle at 100 percent duty cycle.
 

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My next question is how many injectors will i need to use and is just in front of the TB ok?

twin s366 turbos, dont know how much heat these put into the air. plan on keeping it pretty mild this year to get a handle on the tune up, then get serious with it in a another year or so. 750whp now, 1200whp in future
 

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What intake manifold setup?
 

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Id go 12-16 inches in front of the TB and put 1 of the sds stands on each side of the pipe.

Are the LS guys having any pudddling problems running alot of fluid through the intake? obviously it was designed as a dry flow piece.

I havent heard of any but my ear isnt to the ground onthe meth spraying LS crowd. Check into that first.
 
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