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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)

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I guess that's kinda interesting but I don't think there is any "magical" benefits of three well known fuels being blended together. Very little difference in running GEM vs E85 with spraying some meth as many people have done. Methanol isn't magic either but the fuel mass is so large due to its low BTU content it cools like no other. If it had the same energy density as gas or E85 there would be no advantages to run it. It's interesting but if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. Thanks for posting either way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I guess that's kinda interesting but I don't think there is any "magical" benefits of three well known fuels being blended together. Very little difference in running GEM vs E85 with spraying some meth as many people have done. Methanol isn't magic either but the fuel mass is so large due to its low BTU content it cools like no other. If it had the same energy density as gas or E85 there would be no advantages to run it. It's interesting but if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. Thanks for posting either way.
From what I read, mixing methanol and standard fuel doesn't blend well. The ethanol acts as a sort of emulsifier that stabilizes the Meth/gas allowing them both to mix. Then stay mixed without separation.

I agree the octane should be really close. But the octane on E50 and E85 is almost identical as well... but there are clearly advantages to E85 or even E98.

The guy in the article stated he could run richer A/F mixtures than he could with E85, and also that it allowed a pretty ridiculous amount of boost to be run. Not very scientific... but I raced DSM's for years. My E85 car didn't like going much above 35lbs. Trying to push past there would set the knock sensors off... pretty standard stuff on factory style cars just running big boos ton E85 w factory compression etc...Turbo was more than capable. I had to run some silly low timing to even do that. He is talking about 50+ lbs (assuming we both ran a standard DSM head/block... similar flows and all.) that's pretty impressive.

I just put together my 2nd LS setup without an intercooler and I'm having issues. knocking the lower ringlands out. (not even sure how that happens). I can only assume its charge temp and ignition related. My #8 plugs barely have heat into the bend and AFR states it was 11.4 on teh logs. 15lbs and 14* timing up to 5600... bumping it up to 17* by 6500 to 7500.

Kinda why I was looking into this fuel. I have water/meth installed as well... but I'm always worried about distribution. If I just mixed my meth in the fuel I feel like the distribution would be spot on.



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Around 2011 I was running E85 in a local headsup class. My combo was carbed, NA, sbc at 14.7:1. I did a good bit of "red neck" research about E85. On a phone call I made to a very helpful chemical engineer, he enlighten me as long as there is a enough (roughly 10%) ethanol. The ethanol would bind the gas and methanal. I felt with a return type fuel system it would agitate enough to keep it blended anyway. I only used small percentages of M1 to correct the less than 85% ethanol, tested by water mix. We where only allowed 85%.

I do have a question. When speaking in terms of percentages in the OPs links, are they referring to volume or weight?
 

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Seems like a good fuel for those who want additional charge cooling from methanol in an application where intercooler may not be good or not present at all but don’t want straight methanol. Also good for spooling turbos with the additional fuel mass and extra torque that methanol usually makes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Only run an 8.50 cage and street drive. So can't justify 100% meth fuel systems and all that comes with it for an 8.50 goal. Technically I should be able to hit my goal easy on 100% e85. Many have at much more weight than me. (2400lbs)

Yes, I pull a degree out of 7 and 8 and add 3% fuel to them. Not even sure if this applies when using aftermarket intakes. I use a single plane midrise EFI intake. #7 and 8 look excessively rich to me at this point reading plugs. I'll probably pull some out on those 2.

Not sure why, but I knocked the ringlands out of the center of the #1 piston. On 15lbs and 17*. Was in the 13-14* range before 6000. 11.4 AFR on logs. Plug in that hole didn't look excessively hot to me. just into the bend, not into the threads much if any. Didn't even have water injection active until 16lbs. So it never came on.

Threw a spare piston/rod in that hole and its back up and running. Turned water injection point down to 9psi and pulled 3* out of the map everywhere over 10lbs. Weird stuff....



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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
They are loose, but I'm assuming it had to of detonated. What I don't get is if its caused by a compressive load why it doesn't take the top ringland out. Super common tho... see it quite a bit in the LS SBE world.

Not sure if that material is from after the ring lands broke or before. I don't see it on any of the other plugs. Piston was still intact w ringland's in place when I pulled it. Little bit of debris in oil pan. and it wasns't "huffing" smoke or anything. I cruised home after it let go. I assumed it was a HG.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Around 2011 I was running E85 in a local headsup class. My combo was carbed, NA, sbc at 14.7:1. I did a good bit of "red neck" research about E85. On a phone call I made to a very helpful chemical engineer, he enlighten me as long as there is a enough (roughly 10%) ethanol. The ethanol would bind the gas and methanal. I felt with a return type fuel system it would agitate enough to keep it blended anyway. I only used small percentages of M1 to correct the less than 85% ethanol, tested by water mix. We where only allowed 85%.

I do have a question. When speaking in terms of percentages in the OPs links, are they referring to volume or weight?
Weight would be more accurate, but they appear to be in volume to me. "%" can be a pretty vague term but I assume for 10 gallons you'd want 3.7g of "Gas", 2g of e98, and 4.3 gallons of meth. Id think mixing a drum would be the way to go. 20g of gas, 11 E98, 24 meth. ID be worried about it staying mixed properly in the drum though. I may be better off just spraying my "meth mix" pre-turbo. Seems like a lot of hassle... Cheapest and easiest by far would be to put an intercooler on this thing. But I don't think it would look right. Maybe a sandwich cooler on the intake...

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Weight would be more accurate, but they appear to be in volume to me. "%" can be a pretty vague term but I assume for 10 gallons you'd want 3.7g of "Gas", 2g of e98, and 4.3 gallons of meth. Id think mixing a drum would be the way to go. 20g of gas, 11 E98, 24 meth. ID be worried about it staying mixed properly in the drum though. I may be better off just spraying my "meth mix" pre-turbo. Seems like a lot of hassle... Cheapest and easiest by far would be to put an intercooler on this thing. But I don't think it would look right. Maybe a sandwich cooler on the intake...

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That's a cool ride! Yeah I see your intercooler concern. A sandwich cooler wouldn't be bad.
 

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I assume you had the remaining 7 out for inspection. If none of those are cracked, no specs on the porcelain, then I'd try a new/different coil on that cylinder. And swap the injector to another hole.

Easy for me to say while you're the one doing the work, but dang, that looks like detonation to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Never really heard of butting the second ring before. Figured it was too far away from combustion/heat. Is that a thing?

I'll have to look close at the 2nd ring and see if there's any evidence of butting. I've run a TON of boost intercooled with a .022 gap. I gapped the top ring to .028 on this one. Believe its .024 on the 2nd ring. I'll check when I get home. Guess anything's possible. I'm in uncharted territory running with no IC.
 

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What about lifting a ring land like the nitrous guys?? I think they say it comes from running it pig rich. I'm assuming that causes it to detonate in the ring pack. It usually pinches a ring on a 2618 piston but a cast hypereutechtic piston will just break from the shock load. Thoughts?? Yes, no, maybe??
 
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What about lifting a ring land like the nitrous guys?? I think they say it comes from running it pig rich. I'm assuming that causes it to detonate in the ring pack. It usually pinches a ring on a 2618 piston but a cast hypereutechtic piston will just break from the shock load. Thoughts?? Yes, no, maybe??
Yep pig rich will eat a piston fast on a heavy nitrous combo..fuel gets trapped between the top an 2nd an then 💥
 

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Never really heard of butting the second ring before. Figured it was too far away from combustion/heat. Is that a thing?

I'll have to look close at the 2nd ring and see if there's any evidence of butting. I've run a TON of boost intercooled with a .022 gap. I gapped the top ring to .028 on this one. Believe its .024 on the 2nd ring. I'll check when I get home. Guess anything's possible. I'm in uncharted territory running with no IC.
Do you usually have the 2nd tighter than the top? I thought that was taboo with the stock pistons?
 
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