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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im slowly starting to make changes on the tune of my car. Its a D1X procharged 363 with AFR 205 heads and has 9.5:1 compression. It has Holley EFI on it and Initially I set it up super safe to break in new motor and figure some things out. Now that Ive put about 50-60 miles on car and it seems to be running good, cruising, etc. I want to start dialing it in more. It is currently running pretty rich, at cruise its running about 13.5 afr, at WOT the afr goes from about 12.1 at low boost (4psi) and goes down to about 11.2 by the time its at 16psi (which at the moment is the street pulley on it, it wont be seeing over 17psi with this pulley as thats what it sees around 7000rpm where the rev limiter is set. I need to start dialing this in as reading the plugs they are really rich.

My question is with the timing, im running it very conservatively, I have 30 degrees total timing out of boost, and then it pulls 1degree per pound of boost all the way up, so yea its pulley 17 degrees up top which is a ton. Should I start adding timing first or dial in the afr first? The plan is to start pulling timing around 4 psi and then instead of 1 degree per pound Ill start pulling about .8 degrees up to about 12psi and then pull another degree from 12-16psi for a total of 7.4 degrees pulled under boost and 22.6 total timing up top. Would it be safer to add this in with it being rich?

My plugs timing mark is tough to see because its running so rich, but I picked the plug you can see it the best. Keep in mind Im also running meth injectionand that sprays progressively.
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Timing first. That will help clean up the plugs. I always figured the first 10LBS was free before I started to pull timing. I would start to pull .5 to .8 per LBS. Obviously your combo will be different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Timing first. That will help clean up the plugs. I always figured the first 10LBS was free before I started to pull timing. I would start to pull .5 to .8 per LBS. Obviously your combo will be different.
I want to keep things safe for the street tune so I wont push it to 10lbs but I agree it needs help. Im giving up a ton of power, at 2500rpm its already pulling timing out to 26 degrees under load and with the afr, its a dog down low! The thing is it feels really strong up top, even now with 16 degrees pulled out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I run non intercooled E85 and am only at 19 degrees at 16psi. Inlet temps are hot at the track. Just for reference.
Thats helpful, I was planning to probably start at 20 degrees total under boost. The difference is this car is street driven mostly, so its not in the upper rpms constantly
 

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What fuel?

I am 9.3:1 in a 400sbc non intercooled d1sc e85 blow thru. On low boost, 11.5 psi I was at 24 degrees... increasing to 26 degrees picked up 40-45hp. Heads probably want 34 degrees NA. If you are on pump fuel I wouldnt say the first 10psi is "free"... if on e85, that may work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What fuel?

I am 9.3:1 in a 400sbc non intercooled d1sc e85 blow thru. On low boost, 11.5 psi I was at 24 degrees... increasing to 26 degrees picked up 40-45hp. Heads probably want 34 degrees NA. If you are on pump fuel I wouldnt say the first 10psi is "free"... if on e85, that may work.
I run 93 on the street but also have meth injection so it doesnt exactly correlate. It starts injecting at 6psi and is full on at 12psi. I need to datalog a WOT run to look at afrs and iats, but I run a dual nozzle kit equaling about 10gph total which may be a little low on high boost but for street is plenty. I did talk to the custom cam maker and was informed with my setup it would be more than safe to be at 18-20 degrees at wide open throttle up top, especially with meth injection. That means Im about 6 degrees retarded up top as it is and that would still be conservative. I also wont be going to 10psi free, Ill be starting to pul at 4psi, Im hoping this makes it respond down low a lot better where its having most problems
 

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In vacuum I am in the low to mid 30's and it increases slightly with RPM. I am at 30 until 4psi and pull timing thereafter. Maybe try a different O2, add a standalone wideband, or compare to a dyno's O2 to make sure what you see is correct.
 

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I run 93 on the street but also have meth injection so it doesnt exactly correlate. It starts injecting at 6psi and is full on at 12psi. I need to datalog a WOT run to look at afrs and iats, but I run a dual nozzle kit equaling about 10gph total which may be a little low on high boost but for street is plenty. I did talk to the custom cam maker and was informed with my setup it would be more than safe to be at 18-20 degrees at wide open throttle up top, especially with meth injection. That means Im about 6 degrees retarded up top as it is and that would still be conservative. I also wont be going to 10psi free, Ill be starting to pul at 4psi, Im hoping this makes it respond down low a lot better where its having most problems
Its really hard to tune timing on the street, but like I said on the engine dyno I knew I was conservative on timing and 2 degrees added 40-45hp. Even in my old stock bottom end set up I pulled 1* per psi right off the bat...on the chassis dyno I picked up 35hp with 2*. But its hard to feel 30-40hp when ur dealing with 90hp
 

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Agree with Wingnutks. I gained 30 hp at the wheels on a chassis dyno with 1.5 degrees, but the inlet temps were 100 degrees lower on the dyno compared to the track. Difference between 620 and 650 whp on the street was not possible to judge. At the track/dyno it is easy to see. My street tune pulls timing based on inlet temps and it lost 12mph when I tested it at the track, crazy difference with a few degrees.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
In vacuum I am in the low to mid 30's and it increases slightly with RPM. I am at 30 until 4psi and pull timing thereafter. Maybe try a different O2, add a standalone wideband, or compare to a dyno's O2 to make sure what you see is correct.
I already have a stand alone wideband, and its definitely correct, they both are the exact same readings.
 

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Agree with Wingnutks. I gained 30 hp at the wheels on a chassis dyno with 1.5 degrees, but the inlet temps were 100 degrees lower on the dyno compared to the track. Difference between 620 and 650 whp on the street was not possible to judge. At the track/dyno it is easy to see. My street tune pulls timing based on inlet temps and it lost 12mph when I tested it at the track, crazy difference with a few degrees.
Whoa 100 degrees cooler on the dyno? Why?
 

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Its a hot air Vortech blower. On the dyno the engine was cool and only a 4th gear pull. I was shocked when I viewed the data log the first time as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Not even close to a Vortech YSI.
Ahahahahaha yea......ok. Show me the efficiency charts and inlet temps on the ysi, then we can compare real world data. I can literally touch the head unit and charge Pipes after a WOT run on my car and they are warm to the touch. It is far more efficient than the vortech. I dont care about max power, which btw isnt even a huge difference as there is 100cfm at max difference between the two. Im talking about how much power the head unit takes to spin, how hot the charge air temps are and how that changes with the rpm of the impeller. The vortech doesnt win in any category, except maybe max power. Not to mention theres been tons of people running way higher hp than advertised the new X series are way under rated. Ive seen dyno graphs with over 1200hp with the D1X.
 

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Just look at NMRA Renegade non intercooled class records Brian Mitchell, Clemente, Goss ect. Not 1 D1X. Most people care about max power just saying.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Just look at NMRA Renegade non intercooled class records Brian Mitchell, Clemente, Goss ect. Not 1 D1X. Most people care about max power just saying.
Thats because the D1 isnt made for classes like that, that comparing apples to assholes. The D1 is a street level blower that can put out a lot of power and be very efficient for driving around. If you want to compare then move up to the F1 blowers. Not to mention most the really fast cars are running procharger, so if we want to talk max power lets go that route. NHRA Promod who is destroying everyone right now and also won more races last year? Procharger cars, in fact no one is keeping up with them and they are needing regulated. I dont see one vortech car up there....... If all everyone cares about is max power Ill go the max power route. The ysi is a good blower and makes power, that doesnt mean it efficient and runs cool.
 
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