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Procharged SBC Enthusiast
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Discussion Starter #1
I am maxed out on my 400 ci AFR 227 F2 engine . My goal is to get my 3730 third gen Trans am into the sevens. I can easily get my weight down to 3500 but that would be the lowest I could get the weight . I am going to try my best this year to see what I can get the car to do with my current set up but I think i will fall just short of the power needed to reach my goal . I want to start accumulating parts to convert over to the All Pro 245 RR head for next year 2012. I cant seem to find a whole lot of information on what it takes to put these heads on an engine. As far as I can tell I will need a new shaft rocker .550 offset system , a new intake , .180 offset intake lifters . I am wanting to try to keep my existing pistons . I know that the valve is I believe a 2.18 valve and my engine builder thinks that with the cam profile that I am using that I may be able to make the pistons work but he is not sure and is going to check on that . I cannot fly cut my pistons as they are hard anodized . I am also wondering if my spread port headers off my AFR 227s will work on this head ? If anybody has converted over to the All Pros 245 RR and you can shed some light on what is possible and what is needed I would appreciate the info. Below is the way the combo sits now . This is a general idea of what my output will be on a liveable tune just have to fix my regulator to clear up the lean spots as it was not boost refrencing properly . If I lean on the engine I may be able to get a little more power out of the engine but the cylinder heads would probably free up some decent power as I am spinning my blower at 55,000 rpm and can easily go to 65,000 . Any feedback appreciated. Thanks


 

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EFI/N2O JUNKIE
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x2 what 69chicken said^^^

I went from Brodix 11X (spread port head) to the head you are using (just not the RR245 port program) and had to get the proper shaft system, used an offset intake lifter (probably didn't have to) headers were no issue, re-used my old intake (for now) which isn't a RR intake. Even though the pistons I bought from Diamond were for these heads, we still had to flycut them...........
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I appreciate the feed back that I am getting !! I am unsure if these heads are actually 23 degree or if most of them are angle milled to 21 degrees ? Mike I see that you had to flycut your pistons . Are you running a big lift cam ? My cam is a .630 lift running a 1.6 rocker ratio . Also my current heads are 60/40 valve spacing . I am unsure what the valve spacing is on the All Pro's.
 

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There 60/40 and yes I had to cut my pistons as well. I did angle mill mine .060 but that is all I could cut do to valve seat placement.
 

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I didn't angle mill mine because of the valve seat placement. We could have, but I didn't see the need to squeeze out more power since it is just a Bracket Bomber.

I do have a decent amount of lift though. The cam is a Lunati 50175 with 278/286 and .770/.719 (with 1.7 rockers). I would bet running a .630 lift cam should pose no issues for you.

I am unsure of the valve spacing. Even though two companies advertise their valve spacing as 60/40 I know the actual valve locations will be different. Chad or Curtis can better explain that. Seems like the valve spacing will be the same (center to center) but the valve "package" will move-around (front to back or possibly also side to side).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
That's the head I have on Don Barnette's x275 car, .. runs it's ass off, ..
I have seen the videos of Dons car run and that is very impressive especially on a 275 !! 7.68 @ 181 I believe . I believe that the heads are 70/30 valve spacing from what I have been reading . I will have to start to look into pricing.
 

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I have a set on my 434 sbc done by ron's porting service. I'm very happy with these heads. If you are gonna use these heads do not skimp on the parts . If you spend the money for these heads spend the money to have good parts to get the most out of your combo. $4000.00 complete for a set cnc ported, you need pistons from JE or Diamond , Jesel .550 offset on the intake rockers ,180 offset lifters, custom camshaft for your combo, and a good set of headers, 2" or bigger.
 

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I have seen the videos of Dons car run and that is very impressive especially on a 275 !! 7.68 @ 181 I believe . I believe that the heads are 70/30 valve spacing from what I have been reading . I will have to start to look into pricing.
Why did you all stop the dyno pull at 7K? I'm only seeing 28 psi from an F2 should have more left. Under load on the track it will have more boost too. Even if it doesn't make anymore power you still need to shift the motor using the most HP average. I shift my motor 8200....Unless your class restricted on head why not just use an 18 degree SBC head.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Why did you all stop the dyno pull at 7K? I'm only seeing 28 psi from an F2 should have more left. Under load on the track it will have more boost too. Even if it doesn't make anymore power you still need to shift the motor using the most HP average. I shift my motor 8200....Unless your class restricted on head why not just use an 18 degree SBC head.
We only made one pull on the engine to 7000 because we ran out of time. We were doing small pulls trying to fix the low rpm fuel curve . We suspect the regulator is bad because it would not boost reference properly. I suspect at the track that I will have to shift at least at 7500 . I am not class limited just a for fun racer . My goal is 7.99 with the car and I feel that I will be just a bit short on power and I dont want to have to change pistons and headers so I figure this head is the best bet for my goal. I am hoping that if I can sell the top half of my engine that it will help offset some of the cost . If I cant fit these heads with these pistons then I may have to rethink the whole thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have a set on my 434 sbc done by ron's porting service. I'm very happy with these heads. If you are gonna use these heads do not skimp on the parts . If you spend the money for these heads spend the money to have good parts to get the most out of your combo. $4000.00 complete for a set cnc ported, you need pistons from JE or Diamond , Jesel .550 offset on the intake rockers ,180 offset lifters, custom camshaft for your combo, and a good set of headers, 2" or bigger.
I have to agree that of the places that I have called that Rons offers the best deal on them. I have not called Curtis yet but Ron sounded like a really nice guy !!!
 

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The heads also have the dowel pin moved .080 towards the intake-so your pockets[int/ex] will have to be cut further [deeper] to clear your valves and take their size into consideration. I have had Diamond [Ron B. ] make pistons spefically for these heads in the past or they can be modified-just be sure your forging has enough material to extend the pockets without getting too thin.
 

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I have had the best of luck with Ron over the years. Good guy, lots of talent. If you had him talking alot that is a good thing, he is usually kinda quiet. That man knows his stuff, just not the internet type. Great quality work that runs at the track! Especially strong on the SBC stuff.

I have to agree that of the places that I have called that Rons offers the best deal on them. I have not called Curtis yet but Ron sounded like a really nice guy !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I have had the best of luck with Ron over the years. Good guy, lots of talent. If you had him talking alot that is a good thing, he is usually kinda quiet. That man knows his stuff, just not the internet type. Great quality work that runs at the track! Especially strong on the SBC stuff.
Yeah he was definetely willing to talk to me about the heads and his knowledge seems pretty vast . Plus his price blew the two other places out of the water by a bunch !!
 

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Bob Curran runs these heads on his SBC also in X.S. I think with an F1R but Im not positive on the blower size. He is in your area maybe get in touch with him. I think he had Bob at Allpro do his.
 
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