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Discussion Starter #61
Thanks.

On the 2 stage 4.60 pass I had the two smallest systems (of 4) & both are single noid foggers. They were "on" as follows... 26n20f @ .00 & 32n25f @ .60, & it was still lazy as hell. Of course, the 10* of LR kicked the power out of it from the get go. The 275 tire should provide more wheel speed vs. the taller / wider 295 tire.

The gear shift RPM dip is my biggest concern, as that will take a Converter stator change...needs to be looser. But that is not conclusive without more test time.

I really think I can get the same 2 smallish systems "on" by .40, but we won't know that until we see the affect of the LR timing being taken out on launch.
 

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If just running two systems then I would leave on a 32/26 & then a 36/30 ramped in.
(Assuming you run a 6 number spread)
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Thanks again. Agree.

I have been pouring over the data logger since I am back from the track, & have some time to focus.

The BIG DIFFERENCE in Q2 & E1 is now obvious. After we had to remove the tranny to change the Band & Clutches, we decided to try the Coan over the Neal Chance converter. This was not a good decision as evidenced below...

Q2: 4.60 157, 2 stages as above, Neal Chance converter.
1-2 shift at 7667 & fell back to 6712, a drop of 955 RPMs. Crossed at ERPM 7271 with DRPM at 6643;

E1: 4.63 153, 3 stages as above (3rd stage makes about 325 HP, so no reason it should slow down), Coan converter.
1-2 shift 7557 & fell back to 6261, a drop of 1296 RPMs. The engine was now not happy at all, & struggled to recover from the shift, & acceleration (& ET & MPH) suffered. Crossed at ERPM 6665 with DRPM at 6351;

Conclusion: The Neal Chance is better for this combo, & the Coan WITH THIS STATOR is way too tight.

Since we know the Neal Chance worked well on 2 stages, it should pick up performance on 3 stages. We still need to work on the 60', but that is simple enough, with some test hits.

Thanks guys.
 

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Nice Ronnie! What was your best mph and ET with the slicks? It will be hard to find tracks prepped as well as SGMP for radial racing. Sometimes Atmore is OK, usually, the small tire racing at Emerald Coast is very good. I don't know about tracks your way. At least you have data if you want to switch back to slicks. I'm guessing once you get all your guns blazing, on a well prepped track, you'll have gone quicker than ever before.

I think for your first time out, 4.60 on radials is quite impressive. Congrats Ronnie! Keep us posed.
 

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Thanks again. Agree.

I have been pouring over the data logger since I am back from the track, & have some time to focus.

The BIG DIFFERENCE in Q2 & E1 is now obvious. After we had to remove the tranny to change the Band & Clutches, we decided to try the Coan over the Neal Chance converter. This was not a good decision as evidenced below...

Q2: 4.60 157, 2 stages as above, Neal Chance converter.
1-2 shift at 7667 & fell back to 6712, a drop of 955 RPMs. Crossed at ERPM 7271 with DRPM at 6643;

E1: 4.63 153, 3 stages as above (3rd stage makes about 325 HP, so no reason it should slow down), Coan converter.
1-2 shift 7557 & fell back to 6261, a drop of 1296 RPMs. The engine was now not happy at all, & struggled to recover from the shift, & acceleration (& ET & MPH) suffered. Crossed at ERPM 6665 with DRPM at 6351;

Conclusion: The Neal Chance is better for this combo, & the Coan WITH THIS STATOR is way too tight.

Since we know the Neal Chance worked well on 2 stages, it should pick up performance on 3 stages. We still need to work on the 60', but that is simple enough, with some test hits.

Thanks guys.
Ronnie, I just saw this and remembered you text me Sunday and I forgot to give you a shout back. Please give me a call if you'd like to go over the info you text as well so I can't forget ya again.. ;) By lose memory if I'm correct it looked like you were really under timed and especially early in the run too.. Talk soon, SJ
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Hey Steve, no problem. Throw out the 3 stage last Run in E1, because the Converter change to the Coan was wrong...too tight, along with too much timing taken out.

The 2 stage Run in Q2, 1.15 3.04 4.60 157 is good data, with the Neal Chance. Basically launched on Motor. Only spraying smallest two single noid systems, 26n20f @ .00 & 32n25f @ .60 (total 481 HP from your Flow Sheet), & 10* of LR taken out flat for .8 & ramped to 1.20. Total timing 15*. Way too soft on launch. AFR & Pan Vac & Plugs looked safe on heat mark (about 70% toward bend from tip), & Fuel was Rich at 6# FP. MPH pretty good, for the tune.

Will mail you the Plugs from Run 3 tomorrow for a 2nd set of eyes.

Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
^^^ Thoughts are to reduce the LR to 5* flat for.5 ramped to 1.00. Track will be worse, & I will have more gear with the 28" tall 275 tire vs. the 30" 295 tire. Also raising the 1-2 shift to 7600 from 7400, to reduce the RPM fall back (955 on the Q2 Run), with the Neal Chance. A to B is the goal. Should pick up the 60', & overall ET.
 

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Unless the track is terrible why not try no launch retard and see if it spins? Then come back and try launch retard? Do you have any step delays in the kits?
 

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I like his approach and smaller steps. You can't compare running big slicks to a small tire; two totally different ball games. taking out five degrees of launch retard is huge.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Thx. I took out 10* flat for .8 Seconds, & Ramped to 1.25 Seconds...in addition to the Step 1 6*. That probably LESS power than the Motor alone makes...LOL.

Next time we test, we are not going to see a SGMP-type tight track at our local track, & the shorter 275 tire from 295 will give me more effective Gearing. I will leave on 5* of Launch Retard, held flat for only .5 seconds, & then Ramp it more quickly over 1.00 seconds. Also, I am going to set the Step Retard Delay to .20 from .00, to keep the engine from laying over when a System comes on. Minor changes, but these should help, if we can hold the tire. I am "hoping" for a 4.52-4.53 from 4.60, but the 60' is where the ET needs to improve. The shorter tire should help me cross higher than 7200, which should help both the ET & MPH.

Talking part is easy...LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Ant, I was going to take out ALL 10* LR, but when I started thinking about how much additional HP that is, with a shorter tire, on a losser track, I opted to compromise with 5* LR for a short time (.5), & Ramp shorter too (1.00). I hav a bias toward an "A to B" approach, because I need the data, & I have plenty of HP in reserve to apply down track. Yes, I adjusted the Step Retard Delay from .00 to .20, & that should make the motor sportier.

Thanks all.
 

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Fofo, your first step is -16 degrees? If so turn the delay off on the first 2 systems. So it pulls the timing immediately and this will allow it to set the tire acting like your launch retard but a simpler approach. Just something to think about. Step delays make motor happier, but on radials I dont use them on first kits.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
^ I hear ya. I do not want to make too many changes from the "baseline" Q2 Run. 4.60 @ 157 is a decent Run to build on. It was ridiculously slow early on...

Q2 Run / DRPM:

.10 205
.20 303
.50 930
.60 1157

^ This was because the Step 1 of 6* AND the LR of 10* were simply too much Retard...undertimed condition. Thus teh 1.15 60' in a car that has been best 1.07 60' (W tire). The Neal Chance only flashed to 5300 on the 26n20f jettting (at 16* total timing). At .40 the ACC & the ERPM hit a wall (DRPM was 772), & layed over until .80...killed the 60'. It needs more power earlier, & needs the 2nd system on sooner...will put the 2nd system on at .40. I like your idea of not delaying the Step Retard on the 1st system only.

Thank you.
 

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Two thought'a come to mind ..... :rolleyes:

#1) So much for getting the car to leave efficiently on one gun.

#2) K.I.S.S.

OK three #3 with low gear, rear gear and a converter (northstar core ?) for a 900+ inch piece .. the warning signs were the band and Hi-clutch's .. with 3 on early + timing it will take the pistons along for the ride next time too .. just sayin

Tubie=wunderin, how we ever got cars to haul azz with outdate electronics ... ;)

"Many Thanks" for sharing, Carry-on ... :-D
 

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Two thought'a come to mind ..... :rolleyes:

#1) So much for getting the car to leave efficiently on one gun.

#2) K.I.S.S.

OK three #3 with low gear, rear gear and a converter (northstar core ?) for a 900+ inch piece .. the warning signs were the band and Hi-clutch's .. with 3 on early + timing it will take the pistons along for the ride next time too .. just sayin

Tubie=wunderin, how we ever got cars to haul azz with outdate electronics ... ;)

"Many Thanks" for sharing, Carry-on ... :-D

I have to agree....sure does sound like no matter what it's going to be lugging the piss out of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
We will share more data when we have it. We were way undertimed on previous Runs. Give us time to make needed adjustmnents. This was our first time on Radials & with no WB, with many new combo components. Patience Grasshoppers...
 

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Thanks everyone. We made good progress, but Racers are seldom "satisfied", & we always needed "just 1 more pass"...LOL.

Due to weather conditions, Test sessions were cancelled for Tuesday, Wednesday, & Thursday, so this put us way behind on the # of Runs we hoped to make. This forced us to alter our tuning thinking to "ultra conservative", i.e. "A to B" mentality...to get baseline data.

We got down Run 1...1.15 3.19 4.84 @ 148 on our smallest kit 26n20f, with 10* of LR held flat for .8 seconds & then ramped in over 1.50 seconds, 22* total timing. We wanted to go down & get some data. Way too much LR timing made the Run lazy as hell...ACC, ERPM, DRPM, & 1-2 shift lugging the motor down.

Run 2 we ran the identical 1 stage tune, plus the second kit 32n25f at .60, 15* total timing, with same LR as Run 1. Again, she went down, but just like Run 1, very lazy on launch, with 1.15 60'. In hindsight, we took out way too much Timing via the LR, & the low ACC & DRPM killed the 60' & ET. Also, the Neal Chance converter is way too tight for 2 stages & 1.58 1st gear with 3.70 rear gear. At 1.15 3.04 4.60 & 156, we crossed the stripe at 6625 ERPM, with 11% slippage, & the 1-2 shift fell back 1300 RPMs...again killing the ET. Too much LR & too much total Timing taken out. And bottle pressure was lowly 875# on Run 1 & 2. All good data to build on.

Run 3 went well initially, but tranny failed, causing the engine to hit the Rev limiter resulting in a huge n20 backfire. No engine damage.

Before E1, we were forced to scurry around to fix the tranny....thanks to Kenny with PTC installing a new band & a few clutches, & my crew taking the tranny out, it was fixed & back in the car ready for E1 in 3 hours. We decided to install our Coan converter (vs. the Neal Chance) to see if it'd work better.

In E1, we decided to bring in a 3rd stage 35n25f, & we moved the Leash timers in to .00, .50, & 1.00, but did not change the LR, 4* total Timing. Bottle pressure was too low at 850#. Again, the car left very soft, got down, but slowed slightly...1.15 3.03 4.63 @ 153, with bottle pressure crossing at 780#, way too low. Plugs looked safe, but too rich. With the Coan converter, the 1-2 shift saw the same 1300 or so drop in RPMs, & crossed at same 6625, with 5% slippage. We may need a looser stator for a more efficient 1-2 shift recovery.

All in all, the Suspension of the car was perfect, thanks to Rick Stevens with Rick Stevens Racecars. Thanks to my crew members, Chad, Jeremy, & Joe, & thanks to Stevie Benoit for all of the telephone "tuning" phone calls.

Next time out with the 275 tires, we will delete ALL of the launch retard, & turn on the same 1st & 2nd kits .00 & .50, & see the results. The focus is to improve the 60' to 1.08 to 1.10 range, which is doable with more wheel speed. The 275 vs. 295 is 2" shorter, & will give us more SLR (lower effective gearing), which should help make more wheel speed. We'll leave with the bottle pressure closer to 900#. We may need a looser stator to help the 1-2 shift efficiency (I have 4 Coan stators...LOL). We will see.

Learning, going down the track straight, cutting decent lights, having FUN. Progress.
Great progress FOFO!!! thanks for sharing
 

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Any updates Ronnie? We have had some killer air lately! Usually, DA is 2000-2500 feet. Last few days and nights it's been 246 to minus 1600! with water grains down from 130 plus to 30's. That will pinch a few rings if you're not on top of your tune up.
 
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