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I am The Dentist
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Discussion Starter #1
So there's a couple conspiracy idiots in TOBT talking about the reporters getting killed last week being a fake job.

They're citing the fact that the girl reporter ran away after being shot, and there were no visible impacts during the filming.

What they fail to acknowledge is that the gunman later shot himself with the same gun, point blank to commit suicide, and didn't die until hours later.

The gun used was a 9mm.

I know a former Dekalb police officer who was there when a suspect was being booked and grabbed a Detective's 9mm, and shot himself in the head... Twice. And tried to put a third round in his chest but the gun stove-piped. He also died later. No, he wasn't cranked up on drugs.

Everyone says shot placement is key, but your grouping doesn't get much better than right up against your head or under your chin.

Discuss.

(and for the record, my daily carry is .380, aka 9mm short)

-Brad
 

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You trade off power for higher capacity or smaller/lighter gun. Not to mention controllability in a small package gun. I am a tad biased though because I like the 9mm round and perfer ball ammo for reliabiliy.
 

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I think I would have ended the conspiracy a lot sooner. Don't a 44 magnum start with 4? Now personally I don't want to get shot with either, but I think I got a much better chance of survival being shot with a 9mm versus a 44 magnum.
 

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Age of Acquiescence
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In my opinion......(and yes I wasn't logged in and saw this in a non-political environment so I'll respond)

This incident of the ex-disgruntled homosexual employee executing the TV crew was apparently racially motivated in part.
That sets off a bad precedent right now for the media inflaming the boogieman going after the black guy in the media right now.
So deflection is possibly what's going on to keep that message of racism being a factor at bay. I dunno, seems like it to me.
I say that with the proof from his letter or posts being there.
"As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE (deleted)!!!" the document reportedly said.
As for 9mm.....
I'd stake my life on it anyday of the week.
Sure a 460 can do way more damage, but I will get several shots on point quickly with a 9mm.

I carry a 40 tho.....:p
 

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As long as there are 9mm and 45acp, there will always be someone arguing, just like a Chevy and a Ford guy. Several guys I associate with generally have a 9mm for CCW and the saying is that it's just to get us back to the (p/u) truck, where the real firepower is. And that caliber will usually start with a 4 and be high capacity. I really wish I could shrink my H&K USP.
 

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You won't need several shots with a 460. Maybe a chiropractor but not several shots. Caliber does not change marksmanship principles.
 

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Caliber does not change marksmanship principles.
Target re-acquisition speed is definitely changed due to recoil.

Have to consider the possibility of you missing the 1st shot under duress and distance
 

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I don't believe there is enough of a "power" difference between 380-9mm-40-45 to choose one over the other... But for me, I always will choose a 9mm for several reason... 1.less recoil 2.more capacity 3.cheaper ammo 4.lighter guns 5.great penetration 6.ammo availabilty... I carry a G26 with a +2 so 12+1 capacity and in the car I have my G17 with a +6 on all mags so 23+1 capacity with 2 spare mags... all in all 2 guns and 83 rounds of ammo
 

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A 9mm is ballistically right between a .38 Special and a .357 magnum.. All are the same caliper, and some of the 9mm +P stuff is knocking on the door of the .357 magnum in speed and energy.. Yet NO BODY thinks a .357 doesn't have big time stopping power..

I think the 9mm myth of no stopping power comes from the use of full metal jacket ammo.. Experts will tell you, a full jacket 9mm will go straight thru a man's body.. Easily..

There is a video on You Tube of a guy shooting a 9mm at targets out to 200 yards (I think).. He couldn't hit the bullseye at all.. But he pointed out that even at 200 yards, the 9mm was blasting straight thru the 2 by 4's that were holding up the target..

Stand 200 yards out and let a 9mm hit you in the head.. What do you think will happen ??
 

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A 9mm is ballistically right between a .38 Special and a .357 magnum.. All are the same caliper, and some of the 9mm +P stuff is knocking on the door of the .357 magnum in speed and energy.. Yet NO BODY thinks a .357 doesn't have big time stopping power..

I think the 9mm myth of no stopping power comes from the use of full metal jacket ammo.. Experts will tell you, a full jacket 9mm will go straight thru a man's body.. Easily..

There is a video on You Tube of a guy shooting a 9mm at targets out to 200 yards (I think).. He couldn't hit the bullseye at all.. But he pointed out that even at 200 yards, the 9mm was blasting straight thru the 2 by 4's that were holding up the target..

Stand 200 yards out and let a 9mm hit you in the head.. What do you think will happen ??
being as 80% of this argument evolves around a semi auto pistol, one needs to think and ask why?

* if the bullet passes thru the torso, you only expend a small fraction of the power into the torso. Always remember that! The bigger the diameter, the harder to exit the torso. The real issue with big diameter bullets is felt recoil. Yet not nearly as much as one might think. Still it's there.

* probably the best stopping round is the 44 Special with something like a 215 grain bullet. Hits hard, and will put anybody flat on the ground. Still your looking at six rounds in 99% of the guns. A 44 mag will simply blow right thru the torso, but does have a lot more range. The next of course is the 45 acp. Has a track record longer than just about any other. It normally is a one shot round, like the 44 Special. I've always liked the 10mm rounds, and they'll get the job done nicely. There's several 35 caliber rounds out there, but in the end none will compete with the others. A lot of folks like the .357 SIG. I think it's highly over rated when you study the ballistics, and what makes a round work. It's nothing by a high powered 9mm, and really nothing new under the sun. Even the old 38 Super is right there with it. Still they'll get the job done most of the time (?).

* pistols with single stacked magazines feed better than double stacked magazines. They don't miss feed often, but are known to do this anyway. It only takes once! Hard ball, or round nosed jacketed rounds always feed better. Besides the bullet isn't supposed to exit the torso. Still a lot of folks like hollow point bullets. Your call I guess, but I trust nothing but hard ball.

* there are single action pistols, double action pistols, and double action that reverts to single action after the first shot. The advantage of the single action is that it can be carried cocked and locked. Plus a single always has a better trigger pull.
gary
 

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There is PLENTY of video--some of which is not always public for long--of shootings AKA convenience / liquor store whatever, where people have been hit with a FATAL round, and yet continued to function "seemingly normally" for several seconds OR LONGER. Some of this has been HEART hitting rounds, and some of it has been pretty big caliber. This ain't the movies, folks, "The bad guy" doesn't get shot out the bar swinging doors by the energy from a "45". He might not even fall down right away.

THE ONLY round that is guaranteed to instantly stop someone "drop them in their tracks" is something that severs the spinal cord, or a very vital part of the brain.
 

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Most people buy ball ammo because they dont want to spend the money on hollowpoints and the bullet goes right threw. Gabreille giffords is still alive and got shot in the head with a 9mm.
 

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Per Aces,

"I carry a 40 tho.....:razz: "

He, He!!

And me with my pistol grip 8-shot Maverick-88, 12-pump hanging from around my neck under my trench coat!

He, He!!

Gotta love so-called, "stopping power".

pdq67
 

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There is PLENTY of video--some of which is not always public for long--of shootings AKA convenience / liquor store whatever, where people have been hit with a FATAL round, and yet continued to function "seemingly normally" for several seconds OR LONGER. Some of this has been HEART hitting rounds, and some of it has been pretty big caliber.
A few years ago around here.. A 16 year old kid tried to rob a construction worker with a 44 magnum handgun..

The worker snatched the gun from the kid, and shot him in the chest.. The kid turned and ran.. He was found two city blocks over.. Nearly a half mile.. Dead on his front porch..
 

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Dyslexic Lord of the Sith
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A 9mm is ballistically right between a .38 Special and a .357 magnum.. All are the same caliper, and some of the 9mm +P stuff is knocking on the door of the .357 magnum in speed and energy.. Yet NO BODY thinks a .357 doesn't have big time stopping power..

I think the 9mm myth of no stopping power comes from the use of full metal jacket ammo.. Experts will tell you, a full jacket 9mm will go straight thru a man's body.. Easily..

There is a video on You Tube of a guy shooting a 9mm at targets out to 200 yards (I think).. He couldn't hit the bullseye at all.. But he pointed out that even at 200 yards, the 9mm was blasting straight thru the 2 by 4's that were holding up the target..

Stand 200 yards out and let a 9mm hit you in the head.. What do you think will happen ??
Are you talking about the Iraqvetern8888? That was with a pistol caliber carbine if I recall. You're going to see increased muzzle energy and velocities in that case, although the terminals will be the same.
 

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I am The Dentist
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Discussion Starter #16
* there are single action pistols, double action pistols, and double action that reverts to single action after the first shot. The advantage of the single action is that it can be carried cocked and locked. Plus a single always has a better trigger pull.
gary
That's exactly why I like my Beretta PX4 Storm (.40) and my Walther PPK/S (.380); I can have one in the chamber, and the first double-action pull is far enough that I don't worry about not having the safety engaged.
Which means, if I ever have to draw the pistol in a gunfight, I don't have to worry about forgetting the safety is engaged.
I've rabbit and squirrel hunted for decades, and am religious about safety... a whole day of flipping the safety on and off while going through different cover, over barbed wire, etc. etc., and even with it fresh in my mind and being reflexive, I've still drawn a bead on a lot of animals over the years only to realize I've got the safety on.

That's why I like DA/SA.
It behaves just like a revolver for that first round.

-Brad
 

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Just a Mean Ol' Phucker
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You won't need several shots with a 460. Maybe a chiropractor but not several shots. Caliber does not change marksmanship principles.
My EDC is a compact .45 because nobody makes an easily concealable, compact .44 mag, .454 or .460.
My nightstand guns are 9's because I like 17 rounds x2....and the wife is better with a 9.
Chances are, the person that gets hit by anything I shoot them with isn't going to give a fuck about quantity of bullets and what caliber bullet just compromised their their hydraulic system.....:p
 

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My 9mm's with RIP ammo are a little more damaging than with hollow points in field testing.....
I will keep using hst and gold dots.
 

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