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Discussion Starter #381
Here is the next in my series of videos. Part A goes over theory, and demonstration., Part B will be Less talk and to the point. This encompasses the importance of rod bolt stretch, and a comparison to torquing bolts. Nothing wrong with torquing bolts, but they might not be tight enough.
 

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Cool video Tim. I find myself looking on the corners of your videos in search of a UR—19!! Lol
 

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Nice info. You did not say much about the fact you have to rezero for every bolt even though you did say each bolt could be different. I have had Molnar/ARP 2000 be almost .030" difference reading. I use 2 gauges to keep from having to rezero on the same rod. With Tom's Extreme Pressure lube #3.it may not take 80#-90# torque to get to .0063" stretch. Tom's guy ED says he likes the angle degree tightening method better. Never have figured out how to do that right. Like to see a video on that.
 

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Nice info. You did not say much about the fact you have to rezero for every bolt even though you did say each bolt could be different. I have had Molnar/ARP 2000 be almost .030" difference reading. I use 2 gauges to keep from having to rezero on the same rod. With Tom's Extreme Pressure lube #3.it may not take 80#-90# torque to get to .0063" stretch. Tom's guy ED says he likes the angle degree tightening method better. Never have figured out how to do that right. Like to see a video on that.
He likes the angle method on rod bolts? When you can measure stretch, like on a rod bolt, I can't see why you'd use any other method. I have not used the angle method either. Why two gauges, you torque adjacent bolts on same rod in steps?
 

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Say your rod bolts on #1 rod measure .005" different loose with the gauge tool. With using one gauge you have to keep track of that difference. So I would set the shorter bolt at zero on the gauge and the longer bolt is going to read '005". On a BBC Molnar rod using the #3 extreme pressure lube on the threads and under the head of the bolt, that comes with the rods (1.600" X 7/16" assemetrical thread ARP 2000 material bolts), first torque is safe at 50#. Then reading the stretch with the stretch gauge.

If the short bolt stretches .0045" you log that. If the longer bolt stretches .0040" the reading will be .009". You have to subtract the original .005" longer it was originally and log .004". i adjust my torque wrench in #5 increments to just turn the wrench until clicker lets you know.. It takes a long time to do this and keep doing the math to subtract each time to get up to the.0063" stretch with one gauge doing 8 rods. With 2 gauges you minimize the math and possible errors. I don't know if others do it this way. (No one really wants to talk about bolt stretching method or using the angle method in detail.)

If you could leave the gauge installed on the bolt and tighten it all at one time until the .0063" measurement, it would be so much easier. I have never found a tool that will do this and stay on the head of the bolt without spreading or slipping off. I have tried modified and home made tools too. Also the amount of space left to turn a tool is limited by the room the gauge itself takes up.

The Molnar BBC rods seem to come in at about 80#-85# with the extreme pressure lube, but not always. An over stretched bolt is more dangerous than an under stretched rod in my opinion as it id going to fail for sure. It is too important to guess at with just a torque wrench on a competition engine.

Maybe someone will show us one and do a video of it being used on all 8 rods or a better method.

And doing the stretch on a Hemi under a car with the pan removed, is tougher as the block being down below the crank centerline limits turning space even more.

I had a thread on bolt stretching a while back. no one posted good solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #386
Cool video Tim. I find myself looking on the corners of your videos in search of a UR—19!! Lol
Thanks Tater. Yes your intake is on the shelf, just waiting to be disected, and ported, for my pro stock build in the future. Boss #1540, is hooking me up with the heads, and carbs.....
 

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Discussion Starter #387
Nice info. You did not say much about the fact you have to rezero for every bolt even though you did say each bolt could be different. I have had Molnar/ARP 2000 be almost .030" difference reading. I use 2 gauges to keep from having to rezero on the same rod. With Tom's Extreme Pressure lube #3.it may not take 80#-90# torque to get to .0063" stretch. Tom's guy ED says he likes the angle degree tightening method better. Never have figured out how to do that right. Like to see a video on that.
Thank you so much. I had used torque angle gauge, on heads gaskest of 4 cyl, way back in 80s when I was a wrench. Yes I tried to make this vid as introduction. Part B will have me doing it actually. Yes, You need measure every bolt with a mic before you install, so you can track the stretching, in future. Your right about zero gauge each time. Molnar told me, that you can just add to the reading on gauge, so if you put bolt in gauge, and one read zero, and one reads .002 longer, then just tighten the one to .008, if you get what I am saying. I may a quick vid on torque angle gauge. Trying to build my channel, thanks for contributing.
 

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Dragboss. What Tom said about just adding to the reading on the longer bolt would be much simpler and save time and maybe not need a separate gauge. Ed never went there. He said that the torque angle was what they used in a Nascar shop he worked at and was more reliable and easier.

Also i did some more You Tube searching today on the torque angle method for rod bolt tightening. I found what I was looking for. It was explained well enough I would trust it. I think I searched for "Molnar rod bolt stretch". Found one very good explanation about what it means to do it that way. Also found one where the guy had a couple different versions of angle tools. I was struggling with how to locate the anchor bar in and around the crank and main caps. One version has a flexible rod with an alligator clip on the end. It does not take much force to hold the dial part in position. Looks like it could work attached to an oil pan bolt maybe. If you can get the bar to hold zero position reliably, it would work. Then you could just do the initial torque spec of 30# or what ever it is for that bolt and use an breaker bar to turn the specified 45 degrees or whatever it is, with one smooth turn. And then double check it with the stretch gauge. That would be much more efficient and save a lot of uncertainty over repeatedly taking the stretch gauge of and on and how much to pull the wrench to increase the stretch.

Hopefully someone will comment on them doing it the angle way for a BBC and how the hold the dial steady.
 

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Discussion Starter #389
Here is the next video in my series, of building up my 409 Cleveland. This shows how simple it is to measure rod bolt stretch. Think about utilizing this technique in your future build, Thanks Tom Molnar, of Molnar technologies for technical details/explanation and sponsorship.
 

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Discussion Starter #390
Dragboss. What Tom said about just adding to the reading on the longer bolt would be much simpler and save time and maybe not need a separate gauge. Ed never went there. He said that the torque angle was what they used in a Nascar shop he worked at and was more reliable and easier.

Also i did some more You Tube searching today on the torque angle method for rod bolt tightening. I found what I was looking for. It was explained well enough I would trust it. I think I searched for "Molnar rod bolt stretch". Found one very good explanation about what it means to do it that way. Also found one where the guy had a couple different versions of angle tools. I was struggling with how to locate the anchor bar in and around the crank and main caps. One version has a flexible rod with an alligator clip on the end. It does not take much force to hold the dial part in position. Looks like it could work attached to an oil pan bolt maybe. If you can get the bar to hold zero position reliably, it would work. Then you could just do the initial torque spec of 30# or what ever it is for that bolt and use an breaker bar to turn the specified 45 degrees or whatever it is, with one smooth turn. And then double check it with the stretch gauge. That would be much more efficient and save a lot of uncertainty over repeatedly taking the stretch gauge of and on and how much to pull the wrench to increase the stretch.

Hopefully someone will comment on them doing it the angle way for a BBC and how the hold the dial steady.
Thanks bigblockMark, I appreciate the time you took to help us get an understanding of this concept, and working theory. In my case, if I remember it was a 30 ft lb torque, and tighten 60 degrees. I only did on set, as I ran out of time, but will finish them tomorrow. I will torque to 30, then find 60 degree reference use a protractor, and try both stretch and degrees and compare. Ck out my latest vid, on the actual process with Molnar"s rec lube.
 

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Discussion Starter #391
Dragboss. What Tom said about just adding to the reading on the longer bolt would be much simpler and save time and maybe not need a separate gauge. Ed never went there. He said that the torque angle was what they used in a Nascar shop he worked at and was more reliable and easier.

Also i did some more You Tube searching today on the torque angle method for rod bolt tightening. I found what I was looking for. It was explained well enough I would trust it. I think I searched for "Molnar rod bolt stretch". Found one very good explanation about what it means to do it that way. Also found one where the guy had a couple different versions of angle tools. I was struggling with how to locate the anchor bar in and around the crank and main caps. One version has a flexible rod with an alligator clip on the end. It does not take much force to hold the dial part in position. Looks like it could work attached to an oil pan bolt maybe. If you can get the bar to hold zero position reliably, it would work. Then you could just do the initial torque spec of 30# or what ever it is for that bolt and use an breaker bar to turn the specified 45 degrees or whatever it is, with one smooth turn. And then double check it with the stretch gauge. That would be much more efficient and save a lot of uncertainty over repeatedly taking the stretch gauge of and on and how much to pull the wrench to increase the stretch.

Hopefully someone will comment on them doing it the angle way for a BBC and how the hold the dial steady.
Mark, I just found out from Tim Meyer that with 7/16 thread, in theory, 7 degrees, is equal to .001. Hope this helps a bit.
 

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Saw the latest video. Good work. Keep it up.

I just found some new torque angle tools. These are digital read out and do not require any locating rod to hold the dial in place. Also is a digital torque wench so you could use this tool to get to a digital 30# torque and then get to the 60 degrees without taking the tool off the bolt. One is USAG 814A. They are 1/2" drive so maybe they will be enough to do rod bolts. There are 3 models.depending on torque range. $200+.

Sorry to take up so much space on your thread..
 

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Discussion Starter #393
Saw the latest video. Good work. Keep it up.

I just found some new torque angle tools. These are digital read out and do not require any locating rod to hold the dial in place. Also is a digital torque wench so you could use this tool to get to a digital 30# torque and then get to the 60 degrees without taking the tool off the bolt. One is USAG 814A. They are 1/2" drive so maybe they will be enough to do rod bolts. There are 3 models.depending on torque range. $200+.

Sorry to take up so much space on your thread..
Mark, I don't care about any space taken up, Uratchko may, I don't know. Its all good info for all of us to learn. I have noticed, that this thread has 39k views, more than other threads, so someone is cking it out. This is what your talking about?
 

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Yes. Summit has about the same thing for $185. 200# torque capability. Comes up on Google search but not on Summit site. USAG is Italian, but is associated with an American tool company.
 

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Discussion Starter #396
Yes. Summit has about the same thing for $185. 200# torque capability. Comes up on Google search but not on Summit site. USAG is Italian, but is associated with an American tool company.
The only thing, I can say, is that it is so bulky to work with. But really depends on what your working on. Accessibility is the key.
 

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Gearwrench 85071 electronic torque wrench has angle capability. So does Snap On. I can't judge the size of the other ones except by the video. Don't know if it will work on rod bolts but with an extension it may.

On a 12 sided rod bolt, you can torque the bolt to 30#, then you can mark the position of the socket wrench with black marker and in line with one on the rod. Take the socket off and back it up 2 ribs, put it back on. Then turn the socket with a breaker bar until the 2 marks line up again and you have your 60 degrees angle.
 

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Discussion Starter #398
Gearwrench 85071 electronic torque wrench has angle capability. So does Snap On. I can't judge the size of the other ones except by the video. Don't know if it will work on rod bolts but with an extension it may.

On a 12 sided rod bolt, you can torque the bolt to 30#, then you can mark the position of the socket wrench with black marker and in line with one on the rod. Take the socket off and back it up 2 ribs, put it back on. Then turn the socket with a breaker bar until the 2 marks line up again and you have your 60 degrees angle.
Very cool, I will try that. I appreciate your input, I have never chatted with you, thanks for contributing your knowledge base, and experience. Thank you again Mark.
 

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As far as measuring the bolts with a mic first, be careful when using a mic with flat tips, I've measured rod bolts before with flat tips on mic and got different readings from one side of the bolt to the other, the bottom of the bolt not parallel to the top.
MARK, maybe checking all the bolts first and trying to pair up ones that are the same length would help, if any are the same length.
 

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Gearwrench 85071 electronic torque wrench has angle capability. So does Snap On. I can't judge the size of the other ones except by the video. Don't know if it will work on rod bolts but with an extension it may.

On a 12 sided rod bolt, you can torque the bolt to 30#, then you can mark the position of the socket wrench with black marker and in line with one on the rod. Take the socket off and back it up 2 ribs, put it back on. Then turn the socket with a breaker bar until the 2 marks line up again and you have your 60 degrees angle.
So to use the 30 lb then back up two ribs method we would be "hoping" our wrench was accurate to 30 lbs, lol.
 
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