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Old 08-27-2019, 11:44 PM   #16
70cuda
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Default Re: Water Injection Issues

You are right, I need a bigger blower.
Heres the short version: grew tired of the bracket car" I want a street car". Bought the blower thinking I can run low 12`s with my stock engines I have laying around.
Went 12.03 on a junk core engine, Better build a "good" engine before it breaks. 11.56 1st run,well if can go 11.50`s without trying 10`s???
Ran an [email protected] and hurt the pistons. 10.99999 and I am gonna weld the hood shut ................
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Old 08-28-2019, 12:10 PM   #17
Turd Feguson
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Default Re: Water Injection Issues

Go E85 as your main fuel depending on availability in your area and how you use the car.
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Old 08-28-2019, 05:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Water Injection Issues

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Originally Posted by 70cuda View Post
Ok,thanks for the feedback.
Yes I can see it has its limits. Heat is the killer. To get any amount of boost the blower must spin hard which of course is heat.
So today I took Ron`s advice and took it for a hard ride to record readings back to back.
Using washer fluid spraying 400ml and 30* timing it drops from 180 to 160* on a 2nd gear only blast,maybe 3 seconds
Drained and flushed and refilled with 100% meth. With all meth I am seeing NO temp. drop at all,,,however it runs noticeably stronger.
AFR`s with w/meth 11.8
100% meth 11.4.
Plug are very clean,no color yet. #5 is the cyl that fails 1st every time so I put a new plug in every time I am tuning something.
I assume it can take less fuel,maybe 2* more timing.
Water will remove more heat than methanol at same volume at those temps.
Water will provide cooler cc temps.
Read plugs with and without to see impact/benefit of water/meth in cc.
Does car slow down if AFR adjusted down to 11.3ish.
Not sure why melting pistons if plugs show safe. Fuel octane unpredictable?
As mentioned, e85 (even down to e60) would be a huge benefit. i.e. 30% more fuel to help cool and 105 octane.
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: Water Injection Issues

Pistons have been torched by a couple things /mistakes/failures over the last 6 years. Fuel pump,stuck timing advance, poor w/m cooling, Greedy ego driven driver...
The big issue now is mixture distribution on top of the heat. When spraying with one nozzle it did nothing cooling wise or protection,even to it was more volume.
Came up with the theory to try 2 on a "T" to spread over more area under the car. It works. Temps now drop and plugs are more even looking.
Have not tried the same tune that yieled the 11.09 e.t. again. Am going to try it Friday night now that it does control temps.
30* was ok without w/m so thats the number I`m starting with with the 100% meth on top.

Last edited by 70cuda; 08-29-2019 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 09-02-2019, 11:01 AM   #20
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Default Re: Water Injection Issues

Ran it Friday night. Weather was a little more humid,nothing extreme.
#1 [email protected] 118.17-1.63/60ft. 100% meth. injection 400ml. timing 30*
#2 11.17 @110.17-1.627/60ft. NO injection..... 30* timing.

Blower drive ratio 2.32 for the 11.28 @118 last Friday
2.72 ratio 2nd Friday [email protected] 118.
This was the 1st time it din`t go quicker with the faster blower ratio. Usually worth 2 tenths or so.
W/meth just isn`t showing any gains.

60-fts. are slow as well. I went to 2" headers versus 1-7/8". Changing them back for next weekend.
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Old 09-02-2019, 11:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 70cuda View Post
Ran it Friday night. Weather was a little more humid,nothing extreme.
#1 [email protected] 118.17-1.63/60ft. 100% meth. injection 400ml. timing 30*
#2 11.17 @119.17-1.627/60ft. NO injection..... 30* timing.

Blower drive ratio 2.32 for the 11.28 @118 last Friday
2.72 ratio 2nd Friday [email protected] 118.
This was the 1st time it din`t go quicker with the faster blower ratio. Usually worth 2 tenths or so.
W/meth just isn`t showing any gains.

60-fts. are slow as well. I went to 2" headers versus 1-7/8". Changing them back for next weekend.
...........
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Old 09-03-2019, 12:16 AM   #22
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Default Re: Water Injection Issues

More. Try 1000cc/min.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:09 AM   #23
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What fuel are you running ? Do you see detonation with no W/M injection ?

W/M typically allows you to run :
1 More boost
2 More timing

But only if you are knock/octane limited to begin with.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:20 AM   #24
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Default Re: Water Injection Issues

Main issue is heat from the blower. It is spinning 14,600 @ 5,000 crank rpm.
93 unleaded fuel. 9.1 to 1 cr.
Timing over 30* without w/m has killed the pistons.
Plugs don`t show me anything till its too late.
#5 is 1st/worst to fail so its the one I try to tune off.
Plug is very clean/white with light blue base,no color on threads. Timing burn @ 30* is at the bend of the ground strap. Electrode ring at tip.
It is quicker with more timing,but 30* is as far as Iv`e tried without spray. Can`t understand why it runs the same with or without. Figured if would a least slow it if it wasn`t leaned or timing bumped for the spray.. Not enough spray to matter????
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Old 09-03-2019, 03:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: Water Injection Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by short1 View Post
More. Try 1000cc/min.

Just back from trying 1,000ml. a 375and 625 nozzles.
I don`t get any intake temp. drop at all.
Sprayed into the air to test afterwards,pattern is kind of wet,not mist like smaller nozzles.
Nozzles are new.
Pump/system isn`t flowing/or pressure ain`t enough.

Last edited by 70cuda; 09-03-2019 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 09-03-2019, 07:02 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 70cuda View Post
Just back from trying 1,000ml. a 375and 625 nozzles.
I don`t get any intake temp. drop at all.
Sprayed into the air to test afterwards,pattern is kind of wet,not mist like smaller nozzles.
Nozzles are new.
Pump/system isn`t flowing/or pressure ain`t enough.
What system is it ?


I tested my AEM so called 200psi big pump with a few different nozzles and both various pump duty cycles, and PWM frequencies.

The reality is that in real world use, it fell massively short of claims, and I've no reason to believe all other pumps out there would be the same.

With 1600cc worth of nozzle, the spray on the larger nozzle was actually very poor, so I dropped to two smaller nozzles for around 1200cc worth of flow.
Dont recall actual nozzle numbers.

But on the car, logging pressure in real time, this pump at 100% duty was only generating around 135psi....so factor in say 25-30psi boost, that's only around 100psi of actual pressure to move fluid.

I can only imagine those using larger nozzles, spray and pressure drop to shit in the vehicle.

Why more people arent logging meth line pressure is a mystery, it was an eye opener for me.
IMO, in the real world, these pumps are at their functional limit at around 1200cc. Either that or my pump was fucked, but I dont believe it was.
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Old 09-03-2019, 08:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: Water Injection Issues

When flowing the larger volumes you need two pumps. But I'm talking a 565 inch motor at 42 psi boost. You may need to reel in your goals with that blower.
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
What system is it ?


I tested my AEM so called 200psi big pump with a few different nozzles and both various pump duty cycles, and PWM frequencies.

The reality is that in real world use, it fell massively short of claims, and I've no reason to believe all other pumps out there would be the same.

With 1600cc worth of nozzle, the spray on the larger nozzle was actually very poor, so I dropped to two smaller nozzles for around 1200cc worth of flow.
Dont recall actual nozzle numbers.

But on the car, logging pressure in real time, this pump at 100% duty was only generating around 135psi....so factor in say 25-30psi boost, that's only around 100psi of actual pressure to move fluid.

I can only imagine those using larger nozzles, spray and pressure drop to shit in the vehicle.

Why more people arent logging meth line pressure is a mystery, it was an eye opener for me.
IMO, in the real world, these pumps are at their functional limit at around 1200cc. Either that or my pump was fucked, but I dont believe it was.
Interesting info. If you look at the specs on this pump :

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/...tion-pump.html

Its supposed to do .5 gal (1900cc) a minute at 200 psi. I notice most of these pumps from different systems look very similar, Just diff labeling.
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70cuda View Post
Just back from trying 1,000ml. a 375and 625 nozzles.
I don`t get any intake temp. drop at all.
Sprayed into the air to test afterwards,pattern is kind of wet,not mist like smaller nozzles.
Nozzles are new.
Pump/system isn`t flowing/or pressure ain`t enough.
Im running one 500ml nozzle on a centri charged 5.3L. 10 lbs boost. I can see the IAT drop is about 40C at least with the system on.
Check your actual output of the pump/nozzle setup.
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:01 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Clevenger View Post
When flowing the larger volumes you need two pumps. But I'm talking a 565 inch motor at 42 psi boost. You may need to reel in your goals with that blower.
That blower is spinning itís ass off and itís on a biggish engine. Bigger blower/less timing is what I would try. He likes his hood though which is understandable.
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