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Old 06-16-2010, 12:26 AM   #136
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Default Re: The Silicone Thread!!

What do you all use to remove silicone?

For example, I am rebuilding my engine and trying to remove the Permatex Ultra Gray from the flanges of my aluminum oil pan. Scraping works but is difficult to do without gouging the pan's soft aluminum.

Is there a readily available chemical that will disolve silicone sealer?
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:30 PM   #137
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Default Re: The Silicone Thread!!

If you let it sit in Mineral Spirits it will fall off the part. I use a razor blade at about an 100* angle pulling toward me scraping most of it off then let it sit in the mineral spirits over night.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:56 PM   #138
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Default Re: The Silicone Thread!!

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Originally Posted by Wagon Train View Post
If you let it sit in Mineral Spirits it will fall off the part. I use a razor blade at about an 100* angle pulling toward me scraping most of it off then let it sit in the mineral spirits over night.
Thanks WagonTrain!!!

I'll give that a try.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:34 AM   #139
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Default Re: The Silicone Thread!!

Valco makes a silicone solvent and remover. It is called Solvent two-hundred, Sorry my numbers quit working on my keyboard for some reason.

Silicone loves to stick to silicone so you dont have to go crazy removing your old silicone, remove the loose stuff and anything swelled from oil, then as long as its oil free, go ahead and reapply your new silicone right on top of the remains of the old silicone. works fine.

I'm not biased or anything, But I cringe everytime I hear someone use Ultra-copper on exhaust headers. because IT STICKS OUT LIKE A SORE UGLY THUMB.... I use silicone one-hundred percent of the time to seal headers to the cylinder heads or even cast iron manifolds. I use Valco regular black all-in-one or the aluminum. Whichever is handy. Neither one is noticeable once assembled. And yes you need to let the silicone set at least twenty minutes before installing the parts and give it time to harden before starting the engine, two-four hours minimum. Although I have never had a leak no matter how little of time I have left it.

So thats my only gripe, everytime I see ultra-copper its usually waaaaaaay over applied and its so noticeable that it detracts from a whole car.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:38 AM   #140
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Default Re: The Silicone Thread!!

Also Valco has a Metal-Polish called Magic Mix metal polish that I found out by accident removes thin silicone residue like MAD! Not to mention its a awesome polish, especially on Weld Wheels. I was polishing on a used intake that had some silicone on it and the polish turned the silicone into boogers that just balled up and fell off.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:31 AM   #141
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Default Re: The Silicone Thread!!

I had a tech phone call the other day with a gentleman that had a built up Ford 429. He called and said he was having a problem with the intake leaking at the end rails where his silicone is. He also said he re-did his silicone twice and and replaced his intake gaskets each time which was getting expensive and he wasn't happy. He was using the Valco Aluminum All-in-one.
Well after a few minutes of talking I figured out his mistake. And the gentleman not having a engineering degree on silicones wasnt aware of his mistake.

He said he was putting the silicone on the block about 3/16" to a 1/4" thick and leaving it sit for 20-30 minutes before he set his intake down on it. Then after bolting down the intake and letting it set up he was starting his engine and ending up with a leak in the front between the heads between the intake and the silicone, but the silicone was solidly adhered to the block.

This is a case of a gentleman trying to follow the instructions to a "T" and it not working for him. I explained how silicone cures by absorbing humidity and that when a intake on many V8's is installed there is a large gap generally being filled by the silicone that is usually quite visible and exposed when the engine is assembled. In this instance it is best to lay the intake into the silicone right after application so that the silicone sticks to both surfaces while "wet" because the silicone is still exposed to the air even after assembly, Making this is perfectly acceptable. The gentleman was under the impression he had to let it sit and start to cure before assembly which under many circumstances is correct for blind assembly where it will not be seen or have airflow after assembly.

So what essentially was happening was his silicone stuck to the block very well but when the intake was lifted off there was no trace of it on the intake and it was not sealing. I told him that if the silicone felt sorta like a worm before assembly and it didn't stick to his finger that he actually waited too long for this exact application. He also made a comment about the intake gaskets getting expensive. I asked him did the intake gaskets get damaged when the intake came back off? He replied, "No they look just fine" I said then reuse them! As long as the cylinder heads didnt get disturbed and the same intake was being place right back on then there is no technical reason to replace the gaskets. Its not like they were 5 years old and hardened and heat cycled and crushed to their demise. These were basically new gaskets that had a trial fit....

So here is a example of a guy that tried to follow directions to a "T" and it basically bit him in the tail. Now if he would have done the same actions in January when the humidity is very low, he might of had zero problems as the silicone would have been "wet" enought to stick to both surfaces. But in Ohio, In June....We are swimming in the humidity and it allows the silicones to cure very fast. So we need to take note of our exact application and also the weather when planning the use or assembly using silicone. So when large portions of silicone are still exposed after assembly (Filling a Gap) NOT SQUEEZE OUT!!!!!!! Then immediate assembly is definately the best ticket.

When I installed new exhaust manifolds on my pickup truck 3 weeks ago. I put on a small bead, between 1/16"-1/8" on my flanges of the manifolds and let them sit 20+ minutes. But because the fit is so tight and there is alot of crush to the silicone the silicone works perfectly even though its really only stuck to the applied surface, because as its crushed its forced to stick to the non-applied surface as well.
If I would have put that on wet, with immediate application and assembly, 2 hours later I could have started the truck and possibly push out wet uncured silicone because it didn't absorb enough humidity to cure.


Unfortunately A tube of silicone just isn't big enough to account for all applications and it can only label simple instructions that fits the general use. So if your doing something new, not sure or think that your use is out of the range of what a product is designed for, call that phone number on that tube!! Ask for technical service for the product you have in your hand and have the part number handy so that your getting the right advice for the exact product you have in hand. Any chemical company is going to have a engineer or guru that is going to have great advice.
Warning, sometimes you get the stick in the mud guy too. Those are the guys that have 1 of 2 things going on. 1 it could be that they are freaked out by your question and due to liability they are not going to say anything for fear that it could blow up in their face, or 2 The person is just not hip to or has not enough experience or understands your application to make a qualified statement. So dont be too hard on them.

I had a recent experience with a very large chemical company that refused to answer a question about using any epoxy around a fuel source. They were scared to death of liability and wouldn't go there. So I ended up helping a customer out that had a problem with a fuel sending unit question. I wasn't afraid to answer his question because I understood exactly what he was trying to do.
It helps I live and breath engines/cars/bikes/4x4's/ and my vehicles get things fixed before I put food on my table!

Most tech guys are getting a salary or paid by the hour and do something else while not doing tech, So they welcome the challenge and the phone time. When I am not doing tech I am spinning wrenches.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:01 PM   #142
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Default Re: The Silicone Thread!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by flynbrian View Post
I had a tech phone call the other day with a gentleman that had a built up Ford 429. He called and said he was having a problem with the intake leaking at the end rails where his silicone is. He also said he re-did his silicone twice and and replaced his intake gaskets each time which was getting expensive and he wasn't happy. He was using the Valco Aluminum All-in-one.
Well after a few minutes of talking I figured out his mistake. And the gentleman not having a engineering degree on silicones wasnt aware of his mistake.

He said he was putting the silicone on the block about 3/16" to a 1/4" thick and leaving it sit for 20-30 minutes before he set his intake down on it. Then after bolting down the intake and letting it set up he was starting his engine and ending up with a leak in the front between the heads between the intake and the silicone, but the silicone was solidly adhered to the block.

This is a case of a gentleman trying to follow the instructions to a "T" and it not working for him. I explained how silicone cures by absorbing humidity and that when a intake on many V8's is installed there is a large gap generally being filled by the silicone that is usually quite visible and exposed when the engine is assembled. In this instance it is best to lay the intake into the silicone right after application so that the silicone sticks to both surfaces while "wet" because the silicone is still exposed to the air even after assembly, Making this is perfectly acceptable. The gentleman was under the impression he had to let it sit and start to cure before assembly which under many circumstances is correct for blind assembly where it will not be seen or have airflow after assembly.

So what essentially was happening was his silicone stuck to the block very well but when the intake was lifted off there was no trace of it on the intake and it was not sealing. I told him that if the silicone felt sorta like a worm before assembly and it didn't stick to his finger that he actually waited too long for this exact application. He also made a comment about the intake gaskets getting expensive. I asked him did the intake gaskets get damaged when the intake came back off? He replied, "No they look just fine" I said then reuse them! As long as the cylinder heads didnt get disturbed and the same intake was being place right back on then there is no technical reason to replace the gaskets. Its not like they were 5 years old and hardened and heat cycled and crushed to their demise. These were basically new gaskets that had a trial fit....

So here is a example of a guy that tried to follow directions to a "T" and it basically bit him in the tail. Now if he would have done the same actions in January when the humidity is very low, he might of had zero problems as the silicone would have been "wet" enought to stick to both surfaces. But in Ohio, In June....We are swimming in the humidity and it allows the silicones to cure very fast. So we need to take note of our exact application and also the weather when planning the use or assembly using silicone. So when large portions of silicone are still exposed after assembly (Filling a Gap) NOT SQUEEZE OUT!!!!!!! Then immediate assembly is definately the best ticket.

When I installed new exhaust manifolds on my pickup truck 3 weeks ago. I put on a small bead, between 1/16"-1/8" on my flanges of the manifolds and let them sit 20+ minutes. But because the fit is so tight and there is alot of crush to the silicone the silicone works perfectly even though its really only stuck to the applied surface, because as its crushed its forced to stick to the non-applied surface as well.
If I would have put that on wet, with immediate application and assembly, 2 hours later I could have started the truck and possibly push out wet uncured silicone because it didn't absorb enough humidity to cure.


Unfortunately A tube of silicone just isn't big enough to account for all applications and it can only label simple instructions that fits the general use. So if your doing something new, not sure or think that your use is out of the range of what a product is designed for, call that phone number on that tube!! Ask for technical service for the product you have in your hand and have the part number handy so that your getting the right advice for the exact product you have in hand. Any chemical company is going to have a engineer or guru that is going to have great advice.
Warning, sometimes you get the stick in the mud guy too. Those are the guys that have 1 of 2 things going on. 1 it could be that they are freaked out by your question and due to liability they are not going to say anything for fear that it could blow up in their face, or 2 The person is just not hip to or has not enough experience or understands your application to make a qualified statement. So dont be too hard on them.

I had a recent experience with a very large chemical company that refused to answer a question about using any epoxy around a fuel source. They were scared to death of liability and wouldn't go there. So I ended up helping a customer out that had a problem with a fuel sending unit question. I wasn't afraid to answer his question because I understood exactly what he was trying to do.
It helps I live and breath engines/cars/bikes/4x4's/ and my vehicles get things fixed before I put food on my table!

Most tech guys are getting a salary or paid by the hour and do something else while not doing tech, So they welcome the challenge and the phone time. When I am not doing tech I am spinning wrenches.
This is the way I have been doing mine for years and have never had a problem.
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Old 08-21-2010, 04:29 PM   #143
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Default Re: The Silicone Thread!!

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Beg to differ on that -- there is an expiry date on the tube. if it's not cured by the date on the tube, it won't. a guy I used to work with did an oil pan on a 7.3 and it never cured, ever.
Yeah i have alot of tubes of the mercedes stuff from when I used to work there, i was building a motor awhile back and it didnt cure ,checked the dates and every tube i had wad past the date
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:44 PM   #144
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Default Re: Silicone

motorcraft sealer, comes in caulk tubes and is began use in diesel applications.
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Old 09-01-2010, 09:23 AM   #145
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Default Re: Silicone

You really wont have any "age" related problems with the Valco Silicone. I have seen 10 year old tubes still cure perfectly. They used to make a blue silicone that was very good at losing its ability to cure after a year or two....So they quit selling it. The problem with the blue silicone is that the coloring agent attacks the silicone itself. So thats why Valco no longer offers a blue silicone.

Valco only offers Aluminum/Clear/Black now.

I have seen silicone that is very old not cure. But, most of the time it doesnt cure is from improper application and sealing it off from the air before it absorbs enough humidity to cure. The only way to tell if the silicone is bad is to apply some to a piece of clean metal and wait for about 30 minutes. If it has not tried to skin over so that it wont stick to your finger, either you have a extremely dry room or the silicone is bad. Usually 30 minutes is enough to know.

Valco doesnt put a date on the crimp. They have a Lot number that you can call and ask about.
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Old 09-01-2010, 09:41 AM   #146
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Default Re: Silicone

Thanks for all the information you've provided on this topic. You been a great source of info for people.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:22 AM   #147
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Default Re: Silicone

gms part #12346286 just like snapple its the best stuff on earth
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:18 PM   #148
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Thanks for all the information you've provided on this topic. You been a great source of info for people.

Thanks Chris, If your down at the PRI show in Orlando this December you should stop by the Valco Booth, Usually right next to Arias Pistons and Eagle. I dont know if I will be at that show or not, its up in the air if I get to go or not. But there will be people there in the booth that like to answer any questions anyone may have. I hope I get to go. I work in the industrial division of Valco but I am the guy who answers all the Consumer tech questions too. There are many "Gearheads" that work at Valco. There are Lowrider guys, 4X4 guys, Muscle Car guys, and even a few Turbo Import folks. As well as a few Racers/ Retired Racers.
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:29 AM   #149
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Default Re: The Silicone Thread!!

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Originally Posted by QwkFox View Post
What do you all use to remove silicone?

For example, I am rebuilding my engine and trying to remove the Permatex Ultra Gray from the flanges of my aluminum oil pan. Scraping works but is difficult to do without gouging the pan's soft aluminum.

Is there a readily available chemical that will disolve silicone sealer?

Laq. thinner does real well.
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Old 12-05-2010, 06:13 PM   #150
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Default Re: Silicone

Are there silicones that will cure even in the cold? I need to do a partial trans fluid change, and I usually like to use a little silicone between the pan and the gasket, but it's cold here in MI this time of year.
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