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Old 08-16-2019, 10:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

Good luck
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Old 08-17-2019, 04:15 AM   #17
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

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Initially my tune was super fat (10.2-10.4) at 8lbs during the first couple hits. I now have it dialed in at 11.2-11.3 at full load/14psi



2 -12an breathers (one in each valve cover) going to a vented catch can.
Is that absolute kPa on your left vertical axis? That is 102.3 kPa is approximately NA pressure - no boost?
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Last edited by Topfun99; 08-17-2019 at 04:16 AM.
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Old 08-17-2019, 04:22 AM   #18
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

it would appear so.

why he needs so many sites off boost, and so little on boost....mystery
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

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Is that absolute kPa on your left vertical axis? That is 102.3 kPa is approximately NA pressure - no boost?

This car is cruised on the street a fare amount. I will have a proper scaled map when I hit the track and turn it up. The more resolution I have for my street tune in the cruising/transient sections as well as idle the better.

The track tune will have most of the resolution in the 100kpa or higher region. Where I am located I read 98.7ish Kpa key on engine off. So anything above that is getting into boost.


As a side note. If you buy a china special fuel filter off amazon/ebay like this with the stainless filter BEWARE. Just found this while checking over the fuel system



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Old 08-18-2019, 12:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

Okay, now that I understand your timing map I'd say it needs a lot of work. Other then idle, at the key points you should really have more timing. Not saying this is what you need but to give you a quick review of my timing curve.

At NA pressure levels the timing should be 34-36 from 3000 rpm up.
At 265kPa (24lbs boost) on E85 I run 22-24 degrees.
At light throttle/cruise I run 43-48 degrees.

I would quickly add more timing at 100kPa and at light throttle cruise.

Also, I would just make 1 timing curve. How many points can you map? 32 x 32?
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Try not to take everything so literally. Just because someone suggests it's time to deal with the Elephant in the room doesn't mean you should break out the peanuts.

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Old 08-18-2019, 12:52 AM   #21
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

I forgot to mention this. At 240kPa (20lbs boost) I would expect that 20 degrees advance should be safe. I would make adjustments in that direction by starting at 18 then extrapolate the points between 100 (34-36) and 240 (1 then maybe add 1 degree at 240 (19), do another extrapolation then run the car again.

I don't know enough about your combo (compression ratio/IAT) to recommend exactly how much at higher boost levels.
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Try not to take everything so literally. Just because someone suggests it's time to deal with the Elephant in the room doesn't mean you should break out the peanuts.

Thanks to:

HALTECH (Elite 2500 plus REM)
TRZ MOTORSPORTS
REAL STREET PERFORMANCE
FB PERFORMANCE
PTC
M/T Tires
Kris Starnes Racing

EMAIL - [email protected]

Last edited by Topfun99; 08-18-2019 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:03 AM   #22
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

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Okay, now that I understand your timing map I'd say it needs a lot of work. Other then idle, at the key points you should really have more timing. Not saying this is what you need but to give you a quick review of my timing curve.

At NA pressure levels the timing should be 34-36 from 3000 rpm up.
At 265kPa (24lbs boost) on E85 I run 22-24 degrees.
At light throttle/cruise I run 43-48 degrees.

I would quickly add more timing at 100kPa and at light throttle cruise.

Also, I would just make 1 timing curve. How many points can you map? 32 x 32?
16x16 is what I can map. This would all apply to a small bore/short stroke 4 valve headed mod motor? I gotta wait on a aeromotive stainless filter to come before I can fire it back up with the new plugs.

So it was fairly obvious from the plugs I needed to throw some timing at. I was going to put 2 degree in 100kpa and above and go make a hit, then pull em out and see what the timing mark looks like. Does that sound reasonable?

In the mean time, i'll go ahead and add some timing down low in the cruising areas/light load cells. How much to start?

I want to sneak up on this, so I don't end up hurting a piston or torching a head ect. I'm new to e85 and wanted to start conservative, and that was the timing table I put together for it.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

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I forgot to mention this. At 240kPa (20lbs boost) I would expect that 20 degrees advance should be safe. I would make adjustments in that direction by starting at 18 then extrapolate the points between 100 (34-36) and 240 (1 then maybe add 1 degree at 240 (19), do another extrapolation then run the car again.

I don't know enough about your combo (compression ratio/IAT) to recommend exactly how much at higher boost levels.
I posted at the same time as your last reply haha.

10.1cr. My peak intake temps on my last pull at 14psi going 2nd thru 4th gear (manual car) ambient was 84f and at the end of pull was at 96-97f
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:38 AM   #24
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

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Originally Posted by cp463 View Post
16x16 is what I can map. This would all apply to a small bore/short stroke 4 valve headed mod motor? I gotta wait on a aeromotive stainless filter to come before I can fire it back up with the new plugs.

So it was fairly obvious from the plugs I needed to throw some timing at. I was going to put 2 degree in 100kpa and above and go make a hit, then pull em out and see what the timing mark looks like. Does that sound reasonable?

In the mean time, i'll go ahead and add some timing down low in the cruising areas/light load cells. How much to start?

I want to sneak up on this, so I don't end up hurting a piston or torching a head ect. I'm new to e85 and wanted to start conservative, and that was the timing table I put together for it.
16 x 16 sucks. I could work with it but wouldn't like it. How old is that ECU? Do they have any updated software?

At NA pressure levels the timing should be 34-36 from 3000 rpm up for most traditional pushrod engines. Not sure about your engine but I would start there and it won't hurt anything.

At light throttle/cruise I run 43-48 degrees. My car runs 46-48 driving down the highway at 70-75 mph 2100-2300 rpm.

Again, I run 22-24 degrees timing with E85 at 24lbs boost, 9.5 compression ratio and up to 150 deg F IAT. Note - Because I use a dual fuel system approximately 12% of my fuel under boost is actually 93 octane so my "E85" is more like "E75".

Trying to tell someone on the internet too much detail is not a good idea so take everything as a guideline. With E85 you won't hurt anything using a little too much timing until you get into higher boost levels.

Make sure you have a good AFR sensor/gauge and enough fuel capacity to run low 11s at 15+ lbs boost.

Make sure you never run the higher boost levels below 5500 rpm or so. I say that because I run an automatic and it won't lug the engine with a torque converter like you can with a manual.

I will also admit that I've made 1200 boosted passes on my car with up to 26lbs boost and have never paid any attention to my plugs other then examining them when I pull them every few months. But I have a lot of good instrumentation and have been careful and always run enough fuel.
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Try not to take everything so literally. Just because someone suggests it's time to deal with the Elephant in the room doesn't mean you should break out the peanuts.

Thanks to:

HALTECH (Elite 2500 plus REM)
TRZ MOTORSPORTS
REAL STREET PERFORMANCE
FB PERFORMANCE
PTC
M/T Tires
Kris Starnes Racing

EMAIL - [email protected]

Last edited by Topfun99; 08-18-2019 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:58 AM   #25
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

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Originally Posted by Topfun99 View Post
16 x 16 sucks. I could work with it but wouldn't like it. How old is that ECU? Do they have any updated software?

At NA pressure levels the timing should be 34-36 from 3000 rpm up for most traditional pushrod engines. Not sure about your engine but I would start there and it won't hurt anything.

At light throttle/cruise I run 43-48 degrees. My car runs 46-48 driving down the highway at 70-75 mph 2100-2300 rpm.

Again, I run 22-24 degrees timing with E85 at 24lbs boost, 9.5 compression ratio and up to 150 deg F IAT. Note - Because I use a dual fuel system approximately 12% of my fuel under boost is actually 93 octane so my "E85" is more like "E75".

Trying to tell someone on the internet too much detail is not a good idea so take everything as a guideline. With E85 you won't hurt anything using a little too much timing until you get into higher boost levels.

Make sure you have a good AFR sensor/gauge and enough fuel capacity to run low 11s at 15+ lbs boost.

Make sure you never run the higher boost levels below 5500 rpm or so. I say that because I run an automatic and it won't lug the engine with a torque converter like you can with a manual.

I will also admit that I've made 1200 boosted passes on my car with up to 26lbs boost and have never paid any attention to my plugs other then examining them when I pull them every few months. But I have a lot of good instrumentation and have been careful and always run enough fuel.
I forgot to mention that my timing is virtually the same as when I ran C16 race fuel. I may have been conservative with the timing with C16 but regardless, I've make over 100 passes using E85 using this timing.
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Try not to take everything so literally. Just because someone suggests it's time to deal with the Elephant in the room doesn't mean you should break out the peanuts.

Thanks to:

HALTECH (Elite 2500 plus REM)
TRZ MOTORSPORTS
REAL STREET PERFORMANCE
FB PERFORMANCE
PTC
M/T Tires
Kris Starnes Racing

EMAIL - [email protected]
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:03 AM   #26
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Default Re: Spark plug readers/guru's step in

16x16 is plenty for what he's doing.

He's just wasting load sites having so many off boost.
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