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Old 07-20-2019, 06:24 PM   #31
540Hotrod
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Bob. It was the same way when I first installed the Soft Lok years ago when it was N/A. It just sat up and went smooth as heck. No drama. Definitely a huge change from the previous dual disc setup that was violent and wouldn’t slip at all.

I’m looking forward to getting back there with the added power of the turbo combo.

Jim
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:14 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bob Myers View Post
I ran the clutch tamer through last season. It did what I needed it to do at the time, knocked the harsh off my diaphragm clutch and helped get the car going with knocking the tires off. The penalty is that I use the clutch on shifts, and the slip on gear changes cost ET and was hard on the clutch itself.

I am committed to street style stick shift racing, not the fastest, but it keeps me entertained. After seeing Caleís stuff around, and finally talking to him I bought a 10Ē nexgen with custom flywheel to fit my 2.3 Ford.

Before the new clutch car was pretty much a 10.30 kind of deal with True Street set up, and went a 10.09 at the end of last year in mineshaft air on slicks (with the tamer backed off as far as I could).

My 4th pass this spring I equaled my previous best, and within the first month the car went into the 9ís and finally 9.82 ... this is still the same tuneup that went low 10ís, does it without spinning a tire and now goes straight as a string. I went from never touching an adjustable clutch to running new bests in under 10 passes. Clutch is reasonable and the tech support is priceless.

I donít regret going with an adjustable clutch, canít believe I didnít do it sooner, and support from Cale is priceless.
Hi Bob, if I remember right you originally got a 'tamer to keep your hard hitting dual disc RXT from breaking a T5. Setting up a 'tamer with the priority on protecting the drivetrain is different than the setup for best ET. You mention that you had the 'tamer backed off as far as you could, which is the direction you want to go for protecting the drivetrain. The downside to protecting the drivetrain is that it can cost you ET when you go too far.

Adjusting the 'tamer can be counter-intuitive, especially if you are taking advice from others not familiar with the 'tamer. Let's say one has a 'tamer installed and the clutch seems to slip a little too much. It's pretty easy to assume that reducing the 'tamer's outer delay setting would reduce clutch slip, so you reduce the outer delay setting. Next pass the engine bogs more than you would like, which causes you to reduce the 'tamer's inner hit adjustment for the next pass. Problem is now the 'tamer is starting to hit above the clutch's sweet spot zone, causing a slightly lazy hit that slips more initially while also increasing rpm flare after the shifts. The excessive flare after the shifts is what really catches your attention though, which leads you to further reduce the 'tamer's outer delay setting. Basically it ends up a vicious circle and in the end, you end up with the 'tamer's outer delay setting backed off to "0". Good for protecting the drivetrain, but not so good for ET or clutch wear.

That's all apples to oranges for this thread though, as i didn't point the OP to the 'tamer for his application. Here's the link I pointed him to- HitMaster System. The OP likely has mechanical clutch linkage, my link was intended to give him ideas for an external clutch hit control system that was better suited to a power adder application. With a system like that you don't have to wait for rpm to get clutch clamp pressure like you do when using centrifugal assist, so power can come in quicker in a boosted or nitrous application without blowing thru the clutch.

In a boosted or nitrous application power is less rpm dependent, you get a lot of lower rpm torque. With centrifugal assist, the clutch clamp required to hold that lower rpm torque leads to excessive clutch clamp at the much higher shift rpm. That higher than needed clamp at shift rpm is what knocks the tires loose after the shifts, especially bad for radials.

Grant
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Old 07-23-2019, 01:30 PM   #33
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Someone please school me on how to set up the suspension to get the tamer to plant the tire to ďdead hookĒ without loosing 60 foot time. If you slowly release the clutch the suspension does not load. You are simply slowing the application of power to the tire and also to the track. The slow release of the clutch absorbs all the energy the suspension needs to plant the tire that transfers the power to the track and gets the car moving forward quickly and efficiently. More initial pressure applied to the tire by the suspension will force it into the track resulting in more traction allowing more power to be applied to the racetrack. To go quick you have to be able to apply the power to the track. At least thatís what has worked for me. If there is a better way please enlighten me.
First you need to understand that there is such a thing as a clutch that hits too hard.

You are not slowly releasing the clutch with the 'tamer. The clutch hits just as quick with the 'tamer as it did without it. What the 'tamer does is it allows you to optimize how hard the clutch initially hits, then after that hit the rest of the clutch clamp comes in at a slower rate.

Automatic cars don't need wheelspeed. Also think about modern ABS braking systems. Braking distances are generally improved when tire slippage is minimized. More traction is available when the tire is basically in sync with the surface.

Generally unless you have FWD or negative AS, the more traction you have the quicker weight can transfer and the quicker you hit the tires. Weight needs a little time to transfer, but if you have enough power and traction you can limit front travel to speed things up. Without enough power you end up using too much engine inertia to hit the suspension/tires, which causes the engine to bog which unloads the suspension. Clutch hit tuning is the key to riding that fine line between bogging and spinning.

Grant
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: Finally sending my Soft Lok into Cale!

Interesting reading....glad to see the conversation.

BTW...I do have hyd clutch system....

JIM
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Old 07-25-2019, 12:17 AM   #35
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I've got Cale's soft loc in my Dart, but I'd like to try a Tamer in my Hellcat. I appreciate all the info shared as well !
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Old 07-29-2019, 06:43 PM   #36
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I agree with 540Hotrod. Very interesting reading and knowledge sharing.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:23 PM   #37
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I've got Cale's soft loc in my Dart, but I'd like to try a Tamer in my Hellcat. I appreciate all the info shared as well !
Iíd hate to see that experiment on a street car unless your looking to replace the clutch and are looking for an excuse. Iíve heard many stories of burning up a clutch on the way to that sometimes elusive tune. And if you do smoke that clutch, Iím sure itís plenty expensive. Do I think it would work? maybe. There. I said it as nice as I could.
Another option is just pump up the slicks.
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Old 07-29-2019, 11:28 PM   #38
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Iíd hate to see that experiment on a street car unless your looking to replace the clutch and are looking for an excuse. Iíve heard many stories of burning up a clutch on the way to that sometimes elusive tune. And if you do smoke that clutch, Iím sure itís plenty expensive. Do I think it would work? maybe. There. I said it as nice as I could.
Another option is just pump up the slicks.
I hear ya. I've already got a McLeod RXT 1200 clutch in it. The plan is too try some 17" bias plys before going with the tamer.
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:49 AM   #39
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Iíd hate to see that experiment on a street car unless your looking to replace the clutch and are looking for an excuse. Iíve heard many stories of burning up a clutch on the way to that sometimes elusive tune. And if you do smoke that clutch, Iím sure itís plenty expensive. Do I think it would work? maybe. There. I said it as nice as I could.
Another option is just pump up the slicks.
If ya gotta pump up the slicks to keep from burning up the clutch, you don't have enough clutch to run radials.

Grant
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:08 PM   #40
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Slip the clutch or slip the tires. Either give the same result in 60 foot. Once you get to the physical limit of how fast you can accelerate a given weight a certain distance it’s all the same. 4000 lb car 1000 hp. Pass one the clutch locks and the tire slips for .7 sec. Second pass clutch slips for .7 sec and tire hooks. Both result in exact same sixty foot times. Data to prove it. So if you want to rely on slipping the tire a given amount that in no way can ever be consistent day to day or track to track that’s your decision. Good luck. I prefer slipping the clutch. I could use a tamer but over the counter clutches are not designed to be abused by slipping them over and over. Not enough consistency. Not enough adjustment. Using the correct tool for the job makes a huge difference. Want your stuff to be consistent and last through the abuse. Buy a clutch designed for the job. Yes they do cost more. That’s because you will benefit from years of testing and development by experienced professionals who have spent a lifetime perfecting their product for serious racers. Money well spent. Have you ever had someone call you out of the blue on a Sunday afternoon while your at the track just to ask how its going and offer help on your setup? That’s a true professional.
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:14 PM   #41
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Default Re: Finally sending my Soft Lok into Cale!

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Slip the clutch or slip the tires. Either give the same result in 60 foot. Once you get to the physical limit of how fast you can accelerate a given weight a certain distance itís all the same. 4000 lb car 1000 hp. Pass one the clutch locks and the tire slips for .7 sec. Second pass clutch slips for .7 sec and tire hooks. Both result in exact same sixty foot times. Data to prove it. So if you want to rely on slipping the tire a given amount that in no way can ever be consistent day to day or track to track thatís your decision. Good luck. I prefer slipping the clutch. I could use a tamer but over the counter clutches are not designed to be abused by slipping them over and over. Not enough consistency. Not enough adjustment. Using the correct tool for the job makes a huge difference. Want your stuff to be consistent and last through the abuse. Buy a clutch designed for the job. Yes they do cost more. Thatís because you will benefit from years of testing and development by experienced professionals who have spent a lifetime perfecting their product for serious racers. Money well spent. Have you ever had someone call you out of the blue on a Sunday afternoon while your at the track just to ask how its going and offer help on your setup? Thatís a true professional.
Pro stock cars spin the tire and slip the clutch.?
You are right about getting a clutch for the job. The help from a pro is very valuable. saves a lot of time and broken parts.
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:49 PM   #42
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Certainly a balance between clutch and tire slip. My approach is to limit the tire slip and use the adjustable clutch to control the variables I have control over during the launch. I don’t have the ability to calculate or control the proper amount of tire slip that would be best. If I set up the clutch a little loose I can easily move from track to track with confidence the car will perform exactly the same during every launch. Granted I purposely leave a little ET on the table. Trade off for me is I still consistently get down the track every time and that wins races. I am sure there are better ways out there. This is what works best for me.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:57 PM   #43
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Regarding the Hellcat, my assumption is this is more of a street car and that economically dictates a different clutch tune & parts.
My race car will be using a Billet single 8” from Advanced Clutches (Rob Youngblood). This unit is designed to fit in a 6.1 SFI bell housing. Prior to that I had their dual 7” unit and before that their single 10” unit. Prior to Advanced Clutches I ran McLeod Soft-Lock and their dual 8” diaphragm unit. I’ve R&R’d the transmission and bell housing a few times LOL.
I’ve done pretty good with just making adjustments and making a pass to see what happens. I’ve had a ton of help from Rob. I’m now putting in a new engine and changing to the single 8” and different trans gears in my Jerico. I’m finally putting a V300 RacePak in the car so that will be a whole ‘nother learning curve.
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Old 08-01-2019, 01:03 AM   #44
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Iím finally putting a V300 RacePak in the car so that will be a whole Ďnother learning curve.
One you will not regret!
My racepak was one of the best things I got for my car.
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