Oil in the intake, AP conventional rings?

[underpsi68]

If you are in Finland definitely not the same shop lol. Posting on my phone I'm limited in what I can see.
The shop that built my engine was using a profilometer. After each build he said the hone was perfect. Interesting that a diamond stone is also questioned, as that is what they used to finish off the hone on a 3 step process.

[underpsi68]

Forgot to add a rich mixture could definitely wash the cylinders down and cause running seating issues. My a/f was 14:1 at idle, 14.7 cruise. I should not have been washing the cylinders down.

[Ma Baker]

Originally Posted by boostedbowtie

Yes , too rich on start up can cause the rings not to seat .

Hell Fire will also have very specific honing procedures . The guy doing the honing will need to know exactly that .

I had a little hunch about it, that it may be the result of the rich cruising mixture. It was mostly 13-13.5 but every now and then I saw readings as low as 11.5. Didn´t have the knowledgde then to stop in time... Dammit! Well, at least I´m pleased everything is otherwise fine in the engine.

I´ve heard several opinions about ap rings that they don´t seal well and Hellfire is the way to go. Can´t really blame those ap:s if it was my mistake, but I´m willing to give a try to Hellfire this time. It´s a forced induction engine (20-25psi) and thousand miles per year.

Thank you all.

[rick90lx]

I'd be interested in hearing how it turns out. Good luck!

[TurboII]

Good Lord don't go backwards to Hellfire rings. I'm not sure if anyone has asked but how was the engine broken in and what oil or oils have been in the engine from break in until tear down?? I use the gapped and hapless AP rings almost exclusively and never had an issue.

[TurboII]

Damn auto correct....... Have used gapped and gapless.

[tempname]

Originally Posted by prost63vette

🤦*♂️🤦*♂️

I'm sorry. Was that some sort of code answer?

[TurboII]

We can go as deep as y'all want to go on the subject of rings but I will guarantee there is nothing wrong with an AP ring package. We can cover barrel lapped rings vs conventional, coated rings vs conventional rings, vitrified stones vs diamond stones, number of cutting faces and its effect on trilobeing in the cylinder. Plateau finish and how it's done, profilometer and RK, RPK, RVK values. Not every shop has the equipment or knowledge to build these very high specific output engines and have them last. As I stated above, break-in is often very wrong, this includes running synthetic oil in the engine before the rings have properly sealed. Break-in with no load, lots of idle time, very rich/lean condition etc can all cause ring/blow-by issues. I had a customer that had another shop chassis dyno his car and the first pull they let it go to +16:1 A/F, they tuned the engine, and it made almost 800rwhp on a 5.7L with Si blower on pump gas. The car had oiling issues similar to the OP. Engine came back out and found that the +16:1 AF pull scuffed all 8 pistons. I fixed it and put another set of AP rings in it and it has run perfectly ever since. It has been at over 1000hp with a YSi blower on it at some half mile events still in the same C6 Corvette. If I were not there to see the bad dyno pull no telling what would have been speculated about the oiling issues.

[prost63vette]

Originally Posted by TurboII

We can go as deep as y'all want to go on the subject of rings but I will guarantee there is nothing wrong with an AP ring package. We can cover barrel lapped rings vs conventional, coated rings vs conventional rings, vitrified stones vs diamond stones, number of cutting faces and its effect on trilobeing in the cylinder. Plateau finish and how it's done, profilometer and RK, RPK, RVK values. Not every shop has the equipment or knowledge to build these very high specific output engines and have them last. As I stated above, break-in is often very wrong, this includes running synthetic oil in the engine before the rings have properly sealed. Break-in with no load, lots of idle time, very rich/lean condition etc can all cause ring/blow-by issues. I had a customer that had another shop chassis dyno his car and the first pull they let it go to +16:1 A/F, they tuned the engine, and it made almost 800rwhp on a 5.7L with Si blower on pump gas. The car had oiling issues similar to the OP. Engine came back out and found that the +16:1 AF pull scuffed all 8 pistons. I fixed it and put another set of AP rings in it and it has run perfectly ever since. It has been at over 1000hp with a YSi blower on it at some half mile events still in the same C6 Corvette. If I were not there to see the bad dyno pull no telling what would have been speculated about the oiling issues.

Lol go get em Brian school is in session pay attention folks

[51BINDER]

AP conventional rings in mine with no issues. Freshening this winter after 3 years and 4000+ miles and hundreds of passes most above 24psi. If you’re getting that kind of oil through there something was done wrong most likely during break in. Have a buddy who has same issue on a mild turbo engine with standard moly rings. It was too rich when it was first ran on the dyno and instead of fixing the issue immediately he kept running it like that. It now huffs oil like mad. Doesn’t matter what rings you get if it is not treated correctly in the first few minutes and hrs of its life it won’t ever be happy.

[Ma Baker]

As I said, not going to blame ap rings. Obviously it was my mistake. Also the brake in procedure was not as good as it should. I didn´t push it hard at all for first 50 miles or so and no more than 10psi after that. Well, now I know how it should be done... Drove 150 miles and then we went to dyno and pushed it hard. I used 20w/50 mineral oil at first and changed them to Castrol Edge 10w/60 racing oil before dyno pulls. I Changed those tricky injectors before dyno, should have done it earlier.

But why not Hellfire rings? It´s a Dart block. Lot of people uses them with good results, also here on the other side of the world.

[abbottracingheads]

Nobody has really mentioned the oil rings. Do not run low tension oil rings in your combo. Low oil ring tension can cause oiling problems regardless of the top ring seal. There is nothing wrong with the AP steel rings causing oil consumption. Regardless of any ring type the hone makes a lot difference. The hone needs to be right.

[Ma Baker]

Originally Posted by abbottracingheads

Nobody has really mentioned the oil rings. Do not run low tension oil rings in your combo. Low oil ring tension can cause oiling problems regardless of the top ring seal. There is nothing wrong with the AP steel rings causing oil consumption. Regardless of any ring type the hone makes a lot difference. The hone needs to be right.

I had normal tension oil rings. It seems that the oil rings that comes with Hellfires are also normal tension.