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Old 11-07-2019, 09:21 PM   #16
nitrolx
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

I think a lot of the perceived issues from the tune swinging lean is if the tuneup is on the rich side to start with, and hence heavy on timing to try and clean that rich tune up. The rich tune is letting you get away with the excess timing, and then when it goes leaner with all that timing in it, it'll hurt it. But that's the excessive timing that hurts it; not so much the leaner AFR.

If the tune is fairly clean and not being overtimed to start with; swinging lean will be less likely to hurt it.

JMO.
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Old 11-09-2019, 05:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

I started a thread called, (I got lucky last night ) back on page 16 about this subject when i forgot to hook up the fuel line and made a pass which was my best pass ever and didn't hurt a thing , All the replies were very helpful.
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:19 PM   #18
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

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Originally Posted by nitrolx View Post
I think a lot of the perceived issues from the tune swinging lean is if the tuneup is on the rich side to start with, and hence heavy on timing to try and clean that rich tune up. The rich tune is letting you get away with the excess timing, and then when it goes leaner with all that timing in it, it'll hurt it. But that's the excessive timing that hurts it; not so much the leaner AFR.

If the tune is fairly clean and not being overtimed to start with; swinging lean will be less likely to hurt it.

JMO.
Exactly 100% what we have learned sir.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:13 PM   #19
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I have found if we have an optimal tune and we rich it up by 5 to 10 pph of fuel. It barely if any slows down and is more forgiving to weather swings from early evening to later on. If we are lean as takes to make power and weather swings even if we take out timing it kills ring tension sooner. Again talking high pph and 2 or 3 kits etc.. honestly when using that much nitrous you can hurt stuff anyway. I agree with the low timing and lean tunes, but when we richer up the optimal tunes a bit rings last longer and nothing gets hurt. Mostly on small blocks also.
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

From my experience too lean will hurt ring lands on problem cylinders much more and will kill ring tension and ring roundness.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:07 AM   #21
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

I'd dang sure rather be on the rich side than too lean
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:59 AM   #22
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

What came first the chicken or the egg? This debate will never end, anyone want to discuss how to check pinion angle? lol
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

We have played around with up to a 56 jet in the first stage, a 2nd kit on top of that. We have accidentally missed on the lean side, wide bands showing as lean as 15.2:1 on some holes and not had any problems. Just doesnít make the power as good as when itís 12.5-12.8 range.

Most of our issues on a big hit have been when we are too rich.

Until lately, Iíve always been a guy whom believed the rich side of things was healthy and safe. Now, Iíd like it to be perfect, but if we are not sure, we will shoot for lean side a bit.

Timing is very sensitive for us on that much nitrous too. Both freakín sides of it, too much and too little.

We are learning. We may change our mind again after winter dyno R&D work. We are going to run 8 wide bands, 8 egtís, and 8 cylinder pressure transducers as well as header pressure sensors and intake. Probably data overload, but hope to learn a few things.
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:34 AM   #24
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

Probably need to have the chambers softened some (or more) to help get rid of the quench to open the tubing window up, that would be my first thought.

As for lean/rich, if it was me I would rather be lean and no timing then fat and over timed

Fat and overtimed will lift ring lands, and I guarantee be a big problem once the oil gets in the chamber which it will cause. Lean, as long as it doesn’t get hot enough to get the plugs (if it does then the heat could have caused the rings to loose tension and you’re into the oil issue again) you’ll be ok.... too much timing on either case is bad news.

Leave timing low. If the plugs aren’t clean, I generally will add a little nitrous to clean the plugs up. If the things grossly fat then pull fuel. Never add timing to try to clean a tuneup up.

My opinion.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:54 AM   #25
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

What cylinder pressure sensors are you using?
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:51 PM   #26
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

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What cylinder pressure sensors are you using?
TFX sir
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:52 PM   #27
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

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Probably need to have the chambers softened some (or more) to help get rid of the quench to open the tubing window up, that would be my first thought.

As for lean/rich, if it was me I would rather be lean and no timing then fat and over timed

Fat and overtimed will lift ring lands, and I guarantee be a big problem once the oil gets in the chamber which it will cause. Lean, as long as it doesnít get hot enough to get the plugs (if it does then the heat could have caused the rings to loose tension and youíre into the oil issue again) youíll be ok.... too much timing on either case is bad news.

Leave timing low. If the plugs arenít clean, I generally will add a little nitrous to clean the plugs up. If the things grossly fat then pull fuel. Never add timing to try to clean a tuneup up.

My opinion.
I agree totally
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:08 AM   #28
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

That TFX setup looks expensive, I noticed they don't list prices. Would be an awesome tool to work with though. Your using all those sensors on the car or someone's dyno?
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Old 11-20-2019, 04:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

How do those sensors work? I heard about them but never actually seen them on anything... hole into the top of the chamber for it or ?
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Big Nitrous, if you miss A/F ratio, better to miss rich or lean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YD-LUZ View Post
We have played around with up to a 56 jet in the first stage, a 2nd kit on top of that. We have accidentally missed on the lean side, wide bands showing as lean as 15.2:1 on some holes and not had any problems. Just doesnít make the power as good as when itís 12.5-12.8 range.

Most of our issues on a big hit have been when we are too rich.

Until lately, Iíve always been a guy whom believed the rich side of things was healthy and safe. Now, Iíd like it to be perfect, but if we are not sure, we will shoot for lean side a bit.

Timing is very sensitive for us on that much nitrous too. Both freakín sides of it, too much and too little.

We are learning. We may change our mind again after winter dyno R&D work. We are going to run 8 wide bands, 8 egtís, and 8 cylinder pressure transducers as well as header pressure sensors and intake. Probably data overload, but hope to learn a few things.

can you elaborate on this part of your quote for me? What are you referring to by too low?
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