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Big SBC Build 14 degree

27K views 109 replies 31 participants last post by  Cooperacing 
#1 ·
Ok guys I've decided to build a large SBC "458" 14 degree engine. I'm trying to get an good idea of how much power it will make. Below are the details of the build.

9.325" Rocket block with a 4.20 bore
4.125" LA Billet Kriptonite Crank
6.125" GRP 1201 Pro Aluminum Rods
JE 14:1 pistons with lowered rings to help with NOS if I decide to spray.
14 degree ProAction heads ported by BES Tony personally done these for a X Pro Stock Racer. Heads have 2.25/1.625 valves, 285 runners and flow 401@700. 1.6/1.5 Yella Terra Shaft Rockers
18 degree Billy Glidden intake port matched and ported by BES for heads.
Jesel Belt Drive
Dont have full specs of cam but looking in the 800 lift range
Gary Williams 1200 Dominator
HVH Super Sucker spacer
MSD Crank Trigger ignition.

I'm just trying to get a good idea of how much power to expect from this combination or suggestions on cam or other suggestuins on ways to make the most power. I'm hoping to make 850-900hp.
 
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#2 ·
I'm building something similar with a similar HP goal. You are very likely going to need quite a bit more lift to get there, which probably also means quite a bit more rocker ratio.

What cam core size? With a BBC cam core you will need at least a 1.7 rocker if not more.

Jason G.
 
#3 ·
I'm building something similar with a similar HP goal. You are very likely going to need quite a bit more lift to get there, which probably also means quite a bit more rocker ratio.

What cam core size? With a BBC cam core you will need at least a 1.7 rocker if not more.

Jason G.
Its a BBC cam core. My engine builder is working with Bullet and Comp on cam profiles. I was really hoping I could use the 1.5/1.6 combo
 
#4 ·
900 should be no problem with the heads you have alot is going to depend on the camshaft I would be in the high 800s to low 900s or more if you dont mind the maintenance and also how much do you want to turn it. I would put a 55mm cam in it if the budget allows for it.
 
#7 ·
I love doing big inch small blocks. What you are hoping to make iswhat it SHOULD make with those parts. I don't really "guess" at stuff as there are always too many variables, but judgeing by the info given, 850 should be the minimum it would make. Cam will need to be up there for this. I would like to see a sheet intake with twin 1050's personally:cool:. With that it should make closer to 900. Let us know how you make out.
 
#11 ·
Damn that seems a little much for that cubic inch that doesn't have some type of power adder? Do you know the full specs on the engine? That makes me feel bad if I only end up making 850-900hp with a 458!:confused:
 
#10 ·
I believe he is @ 4.200" which will be fine. Even at the 4.250", wall thickness is good, problem is not much gasket between bores, and they don't make MLS at that size. Good call to stay @ 4.200". If I am designing pistons for a given combo, I go right to the 4.200, regardless of stroke.
 
#12 ·
There is no reason why you shouldn't make 900 or over with those heads 850 to me would be a problem. If Tony done the heads you can assure that they are good his work speaks for itself look at Butch Kemps stuff I think hes 420" probably make around 980 to a 1000 and Tony does his stuff and Chris also does his stuff and made around the same thing you just need good heads which you have a badass manifold and cam and the compression but I would still go with the 55mm and around 900 lift or more!!!

Oh and a badass piston and ring pak!!!!!!
 
#13 ·
Don't feel bad bro...you can make that power with less cubes, just a 1/4" less stroke, but look at the rpm. The smaller the inches, the higher the rpm's have to be to match power when compareing apples to apples. I have made around 950 with the 406 @9,500, but it had serious heads, sheet intake, twin 1050's a TON of compression and camshaft, etc... I wouldsay if you wanted more than 850-900 with the bigger inches, switch to a splayed valve like the Dart Little Chiefs and the twins up top..but like I said, you should be in the area of where you wanted to be.
 
#20 ·
I hate to say it because I don't like to step on toes but your right its your engine and you have 3 or more people on here telling you around .850 or more so go with it. I f you decide to go with comp try the rx lobe on the int and the xcx on the exh fairly aggresive but a stable lobe and will make good power.

Oh if you dont have shaft rockers yet I would do atleast 1.7 or 1.75 on the int and around 1.7 on exh if not your base circle will get to small you will need around a .490 to .500 int lobe to achive your lift with a 1.75
 
#21 ·
Ok I just submited all my info to Bullet and will call Comp on Monday. I'm going to take everyones advise and just do it. I hope it doesn't make anyone mad but oh well.
 
#27 ·
Good luck with your build, but I can tell you from the Brodix site there is not way he got the kind of power claimed by Brodix on the 18X Castings, I dont know who had the happy dyno or N20 Bottle loose in the Dyno room but they throw his name out when it comes up. Just go to Brodix web page and the CNC ported dyno sheet for 18X castings and you can see for yourself.

This is not to dog the guy, just you should campair, to make sure you use the same ruler everyone else does to measure power.

Once again good luck with your build.
 
#30 ·
Good luck with your build, but I can tell you from the Brodix site there is not way he got the kind of power claimed by Brodix on the 18X Castings, I dont know who had the happy dyno or N20 Bottle loose in the Dyno room but they throw his name out when it comes up. Just go to Brodix web page and the CNC ported dyno sheet for 18X castings and you can see for yourself.

This is not to dog the guy, just you should campair, to make sure you use the same ruler everyone else does to measure power.

Once again good luck with your build.
Yeah I agree and he has now left the family business (family squalble) and started his own Lexington Egine & Performance in Lexington KY. I do know he can make a lot of power with his engines but I do believe I will just make a few calls myself.:)
 
#29 ·
My friend built a 455 SBC using Brodix 18* heads last year, made 875hp @ 7500rpm on a honest dyno with a 4bbl cast intake, went 9.1 @ 149 in a 3300lb car. Engine didn't fall-off at 7500rpm, just didn't see the need to beat on it for no reason. Nothing was going to be changed for more power anyway, it is just a bracket motor.
 
#36 ·
458,

Bullet might get you close, but I would work through a builder that works with this type of engine. As was mentioned, cam can make or break these types of builds. "Normal" looking cam numbers is likely going to be leaving some power on the table.

First thing that needs to be done is get flow numbers as well as dimensional measurements for the intake port.

Jason G.
 
#37 ·
i would also go with more like 15.0-15.5 compression. my cam pick would be 283/298 on a 115+3 with .515 lobe and 1.8 rockers. i cant see a 112 lobe sep on an engine this big, even if you went 289 at .050, which i would never do. been there done that.

MCSA on those heads needs to be checked. they were designed for a 360 at 10K, so that means only about 8K max on a 440-450 engine. you need to be able to go thru the traps near 9000. 3.1 MCSA is a starting point.
 
#38 ·
Well guys I have LSM Cams doing my cam. I called my engine builder and he and I agreed that we would leave it to LSM to make my beast come to life. So it's going to cost me a little more money but I wan't to be fast with the best I can get so a mans got to do what a mans needs to do. Step up and go with the best.
 
#41 ·
No they didn't give me any specs yet. I just said do what ever it takes to make the most HP. We gave the all the intake and head specs with volume numbers and we told them to do their magic.
 
#43 ·
If I know Steve at LSM, D bushes suggestions will be really close I think it will be 283, 300 on a 114

Is this 1/4 or 1/8 mile racing.

Also I hope you gave them flow numbers past .700 those heads should flow to .900 or better, And what do you plan on turning it I hope min is 8,000
 
#44 ·
Not tring to steal the show, but what about a similar SBF for nitrous? 445" GV2's flowing 440cfm/300, 281/298 @ .050" .900" lift(after lash) on 114ls. Max'd out 2868 with a Prosystems 1150cfm dominator, and 14:1. Think 1,000hp possible?
 
#46 ·
Yeah, been thinking about a SV1 and be done with it. Waiting to see some track results, and then I will make a decision. I was thinking it should make a min of 950, but would like to see that 4 digit no. What else is needed? It has a 4.100" stroke with 4.157" bore, GRP alu. rods, custom Diamond pistons(flat top), 2.200/1.6 valves, triple springs 375 lbs on seat, and 1025 lbs open. Plan to shift around 8,500, and 3stgs with a total of 600hp.
 
#48 ·
Ok guys I submited info to Bullet online with full specs. of my build and here is exactly what they sent me.

CHS 307/322-R12
DUR @ .050 = 275/288
1.6/1.5 ROCKERS - LIFT = .720/.675
CAM COST = $350.00
THANKS, JAMES H

Seems pretty far off to me but I don't know the Lobe seperation either due to they did not provide it. I haven't got anything from LSM yet but should have it by the weekend. Give me input guys and btw I had a buddy who run almost the same exact combo a few years ago and he told me that Cam Motion cut his cam and he didn't remember the exact specs. but did remember it being a 785 lift and it made 934hp with a 454 SBC Canted Valve head with similar flow numbers.
 
#52 ·
The lobe sep is 112 on it the cam is pretty aggressive but I dont know the .200 numbers and as far as the lift and .050 numbers they are pretty far off from something I would use and most everyone is telling you that can you get the MCSA of the head and the flow numbers past .700 like .800 and .900
 
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