Cliking It At The big End - Page 2

Butch Kemp · 12-03-2006, 04:20 PM

Ed I have a pro flite 3 speed from Pro trans or A1 same deal...I run to the stripe,then lift to let the engine come to idle real quick,then pull it into "clean" neutral almost at the exact same time......then reach for the ignition to keep plugs clean. Any fast N/A class everybody does the same thing..auto or stick..Pro stock,Comp,etc...................I put 100 runs on my aluminum rods this year......BK

Gary Kubisch · 12-03-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F. RIZZO

I will go out on a limb here & still suggest that clicking an engine after neutraling is VERY BAD. Even with the safe neutral(which I also offer in my turbo400s - W/Griner valve bodies) The whole idea w/safe neutral is to take the decceleration load off the engine, but shutting off the engine is still a very bad idea. This sends the transmission into the same circumstances that cause catastrophic failures to 3-speeds. The direct drum is accelerated to an overspeed that can cause explosions w/cast drums & clutch damage w/aluminum drums due to centrifugal apply. The same can be said for glides, only on a smaller scale. I will always tell my guys to ride it out in high gear or neutral w/safe neutral designs & NEVER shut off the engine.

Have a nice day

So,You're saying neutral is OK as long as you leave the Enigne running?

Seems like the Engine builders want you to put it in Neutral,And the Trans. Builders want you to leave it in high gear.

With my T-400 I've always decelarated in 3rd,But I wonder constantly if I should be going to neutral for the sake of my Aluminum Rods?

Ed-vancedEngines · 12-03-2006, 06:47 PM

When mentioned weak rods, I am almost ashamed to mention what I ran in a 900 plus horsepower 461 cu in years ago, but they were only the factory Chevy 3/8 rod bolts with even pressed in wrist pins. Those were hooked to heavy TRW L2307AF pistons that I had done a lot of work on. At least the rods were polished with stronger bolts from Dorman. At that time I had never heard of ARP. Way back a long time ago. Anyway that is what I meant by weak rods in my post. No way do I consider aluminum rods to be weak. I use the GRP in many things.

Ed

F. RIZZO · 12-03-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Kubisch

So,You're saying neutral is OK as long as you leave the Enigne running?

Seems like the Engine builders want you to put it in Neutral,And the Trans. Builders want you to leave it in high gear.

With my T-400 I've always decelarated in 3rd,But I wonder constantly if I should be going to neutral for the sake of my Aluminum Rods?

Please re-read my post !

There are valve bodies out that have what is called a clean neutral - the shift pattern is P-N/R-1-2-3-N instead of P-R-N-1-2-3. There are shifters out specifically for this type of set up.

This is an entirely different valve body configuration all together. This design was done by Steve Griner quite a long time ago in hopes to help where guys w/3 speeds were being told by thier engine builders to neutral the engine after the stripe or were insisting on neutraling in the shut down.

Butch Kemp · 12-04-2006, 06:32 PM

10-4 rizzo thanks for the explanation.

**Hutch** · 12-05-2006, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelton_Barrs

Hutch,
What causes this to happen? Just curious, don't know much about transmissions and looking to learn a little more than what I have reading books...

Transmissions are supposed to be driven from the input shaft. When they are driven by the output shaft (neutralled) they will start to internally overspeed as the input shaft speed is reduced and reach maximum speed when the input shaft stops. The drum speeds will vary in different applications but there is a critical speed of some parts that I would rather not see tested. The end result is a trans explosion. Critical drum speeds can range from 9,000 rpm to 20,000 rpm depending on drum diameter and constructed material. It doesn't take long to reach those speeds when the multiplier of 2 to 2.5 X driveshaft speed is calculated.

Hope this helps explain things , Hutch

Shelton_Barrs · 12-05-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutch

Transmissions are supposed to be driven from the input shaft. When they are driven by the output shaft (neutralled) they will start to internally overspeed as the input shaft speed is reduced and reach maximum speed when the input shaft stops. The drum speeds will vary in different applications but there is a critical speed of some parts that I would rather not see tested. The end result is a trans explosion. Critical drum speeds can range from 9,000 rpm to 20,000 rpm depending on drum diameter and constructed material. It doesn't take long to reach those speeds when the multiplier of 2 to 2.5 X driveshaft speed is calculated.

Hope this helps explain things , Hutch

Yes it does. Guess I will be changing my shut down procedure in the near future...

thanks,
Shelton

Mike Thompson · 12-05-2006, 08:42 PM

My question is how can you get a good plug reading if you leave the engine running for the entire time it takes to stop the car? I would think all that idle time would dirty the plug reading you are looking for.

slowfive0 · 12-06-2006, 01:11 AM

Subscribing.... C-4 rev man vb here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Thompson

My question is how can you get a good plug reading if you leave the engine running for the entire time it takes to stop the car? I would think all that idle time would dirty the plug reading you are looking for.

**Hutch** · 12-06-2006, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Thompson

My question is how can you get a good plug reading if you leave the engine running for the entire time it takes to stop the car? I would think all that idle time would dirty the plug reading you are looking for.

I have found that a plug reading is "burned" into the plug. The shutdown will only contribute a smal amount of soot if any. Brake clean will make the "soot" go away and whats left is the run.

Hutch

John Lowe · 12-06-2006, 01:45 PM

X2 I agree with Hutch , I have driven me car back to the pits and it only seems to effect the front part of the porcelain ,in most cases I'm still able to see the fuel ring.

Butch Kemp · 12-06-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Thompson

My question is how can you get a good plug reading if you leave the engine running for the entire time it takes to stop the car? I would think all that idle time would dirty the plug reading you are looking for.

If your looking for every thing you have."hp" you can't !!! IMO

12-03-2006, 04:20 PM	#16
Butch Kemp Senior Member Smoked another BBC Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Washington MI Posts: 2,496	Ed I have a pro flite 3 speed from Pro trans or A1 same deal...I run to the stripe,then lift to let the engine come to idle real quick,then pull it into "clean" neutral almost at the exact same time......then reach for the ignition to keep plugs clean. Any fast N/A class everybody does the same thing..auto or stick..Pro stock,Comp,etc...................I put 100 runs on my aluminum rods this year......BK __________________ --------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to: Dart BES racing engines Mickey Thompson tires and wheels CFE heads/manifolds Ultimate converter concepts Gilsbach racecraft Chandler racing components Utp racecars QC coatings

12-04-2006, 06:32 PM	#20
Butch Kemp Senior Member Smoked another BBC Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Washington MI Posts: 2,496	10-4 rizzo thanks for the explanation. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to: Dart BES racing engines Mickey Thompson tires and wheels CFE heads/manifolds Ultimate converter concepts Gilsbach racecraft Chandler racing components Utp racecars QC coatings

12-06-2006, 01:45 PM	#26
John Lowe Junior Member Launchin Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hampstead,MD Posts: 450	X2 I agree with Hutch , I have driven me car back to the pits and it only seems to effect the front part of the porcelain ,in most cases I'm still able to see the fuel ring. __________________ *It's a "CAMARO" thing you wouldn't understand*

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12-03-2006, 06:47 PM	#18
Ed-vancedEngines Senior Member Smoked another BBC Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Temp location. In a bed in McKinney, Tx. Call anytime on Cell 972-464-7400 Posts: 2,899	When mentioned weak rods, I am almost ashamed to mention what I ran in a 900 plus horsepower 461 cu in years ago, but they were only the factory Chevy 3/8 rod bolts with even pressed in wrist pins. Those were hooked to heavy TRW L2307AF pistons that I had done a lot of work on. At least the rods were polished with stronger bolts from Dorman. At that time I had never heard of ARP. Way back a long time ago. Anyway that is what I meant by weak rods in my post. No way do I consider aluminum rods to be weak. I use the GRP in many things. Ed

12-05-2006, 08:42 PM	#23
Mike Thompson 275 DR Smoked another BBC Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NY Posts: 3,538	My question is how can you get a good plug reading if you leave the engine running for the entire time it takes to stop the car? I would think all that idle time would dirty the plug reading you are looking for.