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E85 non-intercooled

24K views 97 replies 30 participants last post by  Johnston Motorsports 
#1 ·
I'm looking to run e85 without an intercooler. It's a gm 6.0 LS with a Borg warner s475. Will be under 20psi. Will the high iat's kill the motor? I heard the e85 cools the charge enough to stop detonation. Let's hear some real world experience.
 
#5 ·
It will be fine.

I have been 6 years EFI non-intercooled. 3 years with 110 and 3 years with E85. Just keep timing in check and it will be fine.

My inlets are 300+, don't let that freak you out.

I've done 3 cars in the last three years that all were E85 EFI non-intercooled.....it makes for a great street strip car that is much less complex and doesnt have create issues with cooling.
 
#10 ·
Via the numbers put into his sport compact tuner website the amount of power loss equates to "A LOT". Lol


In otherwords you are gaining so much in all other aspects that the couple percent you lose won't even be noticed due to the overall enjoyment from the whole package.
 
#11 ·
Watch your E85 percentages if you're getting it out of the pumps. Ours went from 80ish% last summer to 70% or less here. With the low cost of decent IC's these days unless your totally strapped for space I don't see why every turbo car wouldn't run one.

The power gain per lb of boost would constantly change depending a ton of variables. ambient temps, IC efficiency, turbo size, flow etc... So there isn't cut and dry answer to exact % of power gained. But cooler denser air will make more power and *should* allow you to get away with more boost before getting into detonation.

My $124 (shipped!) 32x12x4 A2A cooler keeps my inlet temps around 160* by the end of a quarter at 20-21lbs with an s400sx3 and 80* ambient temps....
 
#19 ·
No room in a full frame truck engine bay, C'mon! ;)

Guess it depends how fast you want to go and how much power you want to make. Making the same number at less boost will mean the turbo and engine wouldn't be working as hard/hot. If that’s not a concern and you can make your power goals without, I suppose there is no point in running one.

If I had a truck, I would toss a water-to-air unit in the bed.
 
#23 ·
I know an intercooler causes restriction, but that doesn't mean the motor doesn't make a lot more power intercooled. And I know it probably isn't that believable for a $75 ebay intercooler, but my wastegate before would hold 14-15 psi, and now its 13-14, so its about 1psi of drop.

I'm just giving my experience, not a theory. My experience is that I lost a ton of power with a non intercooled setup. So I recommend to any of my friends with junkyard 5.3 turbo setups on e85 to do an a2w. my figures point to making about 1ish WHP for every 2-3* cooler IAT. Its an easy decision for me since I have a football field of room under my hood.
 
#26 ·
Under 20 psi there is no reason you would have to worry about high intake temps. If you were going to run 30psi then I'd worry. My setup is carbureted so it has more time to cool off the intake charge. But I have some good info that would still be useful even with FI. I have a intake temp sensor before the carb and also 1" under the carb. At 25psi I see 200+ temps just before the intake hat but 1" under the carb I don't see nothing over 110 degrees. My setup is twin 91's non intercooled on E-98
 
#27 ·
Great info. I guess I would rather spray meth/water into the air charge with a meth kit before I would do an intercooler. If I had to run an intercooler I would try and keep it simple and use an air to air. I'm a little foggy in how an air to water system works.
 
#30 ·
Did this tonight. almost 5 tenths faster on 1less psi and 100lbs heavier with the A2W over 50/50 meth,denatured alcohol injection. If you wanna leave A TON of power on the table with E85, be my guest and leave the A2W intercooler on my front porch and I'll gladly use it. Results, not theory here.

 
#52 · (Edited)
Did this tonight. almost 5 tenths faster on 1less psi and 100lbs heavier with the A2W over 50/50 meth,denatured alcohol injection. If you wanna leave A TON of power on the table with E85, be my guest and leave the A2W intercooler on my front porch and I'll gladly use it. Results, not theory here.


that's kinda funny, I have an air to water and blow thru E85. I ran 5.41 at 138mph with the intercooler on and ice in the tank. next pass with warm water and the intercooler pump off I went a 5.39 at 139. I now do not have an intercooler on my car since it did nothing. so I think something else is up with your setup. im a full second faster and my car is 100% street setup, full interior and looks like a stock SS Camaro. I don't run mine on the edge either with timing or fuel.
 
#35 ·
I see you are running the holley dominator system so I have to ask, why not add actual fuel injectors and a water meth tank setup as a complete stand alone fuel system? You can add injectors to your cold side piping and run the injectors off any sensor you want such as IATs and everything will be data logged. In doing this you have full adjustablity over your meth injection based off any sensors you would like rather than just boost alone. This is how I am setting my system up and its even cheaper than buying a progressive meth setup through most major companies.

Plus you can log different mixes to see what is the most effective in cooling as you would see your injector cycle duty based off your IATs. If you program your injectors setup for meth in your cold side piping to spray based off IATs and change your mix you will see if your injectors are spraying more or less and also what the corresponding IATs are.

Anyway this is my idea that I will be running and as of now I have never seen it done yet.
A post I made on another thread.
 
#36 ·
I dont know if it will "kill" the engine if you keep it under 20lb but you better be conservative on the timing and run it rich. I do think you will be leaving power on the table without an intercooler on a fuel injecton setup. Even a nice A2A would help keep the IATs down. Just buy a CSU carb and dont worry about an intercooler lol.
 
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