Non intercooled, how much meth is too much? - Yellow Bullet Forums

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Old 05-31-2013, 03:18 PM   #1
CameronVic
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Default Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Here's the specs that are pertinent and some that possibly arent:
1999 crown vic 3700-3800 lbs
chevy 5.3 with 241 heads (8.8ish:1)
LS6 intake and cam
TH400
precision GTSH (7682)
E85
95lb injectors
2 nozzles. 1 pre turbo, one after (50% distilled water/ 50% denatured alcohol)

16psi it stayed just below 200* IATs through the 1/4 traps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWDF7rMGXDE

Well I made the brilliant decision to get greedy, and put it on 23psi. I figured 10* would be a nice low starting point. So drove to mexico and did a pull after I turned the boost controller up some.

First pull was about 18psi. I turned it up a little, then repeated, 20 psi. Turned it a little more, did a pull, went to 23psi, and the car started to let loose so I considered it a success, turned around, and went home. Well the car started smoking a little out of the valve covers. I didn't think anything of it, got the car home. I didn't get on it at all the whole way home.

Next day I tried to drive it and it was smoking like a chinese opium den out of the breathers, and the exhaust this time.

Pulled the plugs and there's oil on like 3 or 4 of the plugs. I know the ringlands are toast, that's fine because I have a box of pistons and rods with African Bird oil on them keeping them from corroding.

Long story longer, after I put it back together, I'm going to lower the boost to 18-19 and keep it there, pull a little bit of timing, and try that.

I plan on spraying straight M1 through the nozzles this next time around. My question is at what point is there too much meth if there is a point?

A friend suggested I make this thread to get some possible experience from people on this. I don't know much (or anything) about methanol, but my understanding would be that the more meth I spray to cool the IATs, it would just lower the injector duty cycle and there would be no ill effects.

He also thinks that I could have crushed ringlands not from detonation (like I think), but because of an overly rich condition. AFs were low 11s the entire time, and touched high 10s in a few places on the datalog. I personally don't think that qualifies as overly rich. I would think flatlining 10.0s would be overly rich, which it has never done.

Lemme know what you guys think, and if you have any questions, lemme know. I'm gonna go pull this motor. LOL.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Is this non inter cooled?
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:18 AM   #3
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Is your meth kit a progressive setup? What size nozzles and are you running pump gas?
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Should have read the title, my bad
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

What size nozzles? With straight meth (with progressive controller) at that boost level you could run 2 large nozzles no problem. Just tune your setup to suit and take some timing out above a certain IAT incase your meth kit fails.
FYI- I have 3 large nozzles, 1 pre 2 post running straight meth at 15psi on a 383.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:56 AM   #6
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

hardly such a thing as too much methanol from two nozzles.

think about the fact that some boosted cars run methanol fuel as low as 3.5:1 afr
many cars run around 4:1 afr. in gas terms thats approx 8-9 afr

that also answers your other question - you did not lift ring lands from being too rich - guys spraying methanol are spraying 2x as much as gasoline guys, 1.4x as much as e85 and not lifting ring lands. if you lifted from being too rich, then nobody would be able to run meth or eth as primary fuel.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Everyone keep in mind this was 50% water/50% denatured alcohol. NOT straight Meth.

Also how do you know he didn't lift them from being too rich? He is on a stock piston pushing a good bit of fuel/pressure through it, add to that a dual irrigation system that is cooling down the intake charge, but at what point will the motor not be able to ingest anymore of the 50/50 mix?

It is difficult to compare a bone stock motor more than doubling its base hp to a purpose built turbo motor with adequate pistons.

I believe the same condition he had before will be much more difficult to happen with straight meth vs the water mix.

But also I would like to hear more first hand experience with the 50/50 mix AND straight meth comparison as opposed to reading the internet.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FULLBLOWN03 View Post
Is your meth kit a progressive setup? What size nozzles and are you running pump gas?
One is 6.32gph@40psi, 10.0gph@100psi.
The other is 9.49gph@40psi, 15.0gph@100psi.
Pump is close to 100psi

I'm not on pump gas, well, technically I am. It's on E85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ott308 View Post
What size nozzles? With straight meth (with progressive controller) at that boost level you could run 2 large nozzles no problem. Just tune your setup to suit and take some timing out above a certain IAT incase your meth kit fails.
FYI- I have 3 large nozzles, 1 pre 2 post running straight meth at 15psi on a 383.
I have megasquirt and it can pull timing if IATs get too crazy, and it will also add fuel in to target EFs if the meth pump goes. Thank you for the input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 71 chevy View Post
hardly such a thing as too much methanol from two nozzles.

think about the fact that some boosted cars run methanol fuel as low as 3.5:1 afr
many cars run around 4:1 afr. in gas terms thats approx 8-9 afr

that also answers your other question - you did not lift ring lands from being too rich - guys spraying methanol are spraying 2x as much as gasoline guys, 1.4x as much as e85 and not lifting ring lands. if you lifted from being too rich, then nobody would be able to run meth or eth as primary fuel.
When I start spraying meth, will that change anything as far was the wideband accuracy? Like, will it be reading overly rich when in fact its incredibly lean?
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

I used to run a mix of meth/water. Tried several different mixes, 100 percent meth I believes works the best. With the meth kit activated on mine at full boost the afr will bump down to the 9s. And it pulls hard. I figure meth with the lower stoich helps. I would never run it that fat with a water mix. Is mine too rich-probably? I will be doing some more tuning soon and leaning it out some. Water mix has a limit of how much to inject-not really the same situation with 100% meth.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Sounds like you should stop fuaroundcking around and put an intercooler on it.....
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Quiet with your blow through!
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluchev View Post
Sounds like you should stop fuaroundcking around and put and put good pistons in it.....
Fixed!
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Well no crushed ring lands as I had hoped...



All a good piston woulda got me here Brian was a more expensive fix
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Lol mustve been drunk when i posted that holy mis spelling! Lol
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:23 AM   #15
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Default Re: Non intercooled, how much meth is too much?

Ouch! Whats the cylinder wall look like?
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