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Old 10-17-2011, 05:43 PM   #16
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Default Re: Something's not right???

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Motor - 10.5 compression, Aluminum Dart Pro1 - 200cc, Lunati Solid Roller #60131 - 237/243 @ 50, 566/578 lift, Victor JR, 1 3/4 headers, with 2 1/2 inch exhaust with 2 chamber Flowmasters.

Builder did not dyno the engine. It was dyno'd by a local shop that is highly recommended and know for real world power. So I am not too worried about the numbers not being accurate.

Good point on the shift rpm Greg. I did not take that into account. The lowest I set the light was 6000. Based on the tach recall, it sees another 300 rpm before it shifts.

I did want to try a set of shorter tires, but I only managed to get 2 tnt nights and now the tracks are closed for the winter I am not sure if I want to go to more gear, or shorter tire??? It is a street car, but for the next couple of years it will be 95% strip only. The local bracket guys here are telling me to do the tall gear (4.88 or 5.13) and big stall convertor too.

Suspension updates are on the Christmas list

Suspension is stock in front with cheap 3 way Comp Engineering drag shocks.
Rear has air shocks (I know, I know) and stock boxed arms with urethane bushings.

Even if I was spinning to half track...doesn't anyone think the MPH is still too low?
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Old 10-17-2011, 05:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: Something's not right???

cam is too small, if youre running with the exhaust on, its choking the motor, if you stay with the 29" tire go to a 4:88 gear. first thing you need to do is stop it from spinning, and throw the air shocks in the garbage
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Something's not right???

I think it has to do alot with your shift by the time it shifts you are out of the power range and starting to fall off shift earlier when it is still pulling hard like 55 to 5700 this should help out alot.As far as air shocks i have been 1.47 60'with a 347 making 475 hp on a 29x10.5 with 4.56 gear weight 3550 but these small blocks have hell with getting these heavy cars moving torque kills us
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: Something's not right???

as far as any engine tuning device i have said very often, one of the best tools you can buy is an air\fuel gage! dial your carb in, it may seem lil rich on idle, may be lean somewhere else in the throttle or vise versa. i dont think your far away on jets, i think your prob close.i do think cam is small, so thinkin perhaps your better short shifting it. agreed too that launch needs big time attention.good luck
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: Something's not right???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 78buickregal View Post
I agree with what was said about needing more gear. Tall, heavy tires on a slow car need A LOT of gear. Once you get your traction issues figured out, try to borrow some shorter tires from a buddy for a pass or two. The shorter tire will be just like going to a higher gear. I'll bet you could pick up .2 or better with some 27" or 26" tires.

Also, I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in the dyno numbers. Especially if the guy running the dyno is the same guy who built your engine. All dynos are different and some tend to be VERY loose. I would only trust it if you have references from quite a few people who say their car made a certain number and then performed exactly as expected based on that number once on the track.

The next concern would be your shift point. You said you shifted between 6000 and 6500. Is that taking the shifting delay into account, or is that the rpm you have your shift light set at? It can make a big difference. Say you set your shift lite for 6000. By the time you react, pull the shifter, and the trans shifts, it could be 6500rpm or even higher. If your peak hp is 5800, I would be setting that shift light for 56-5700 or perhaps even lower.

But the most important detail is your traction issue. That should always be the #1 priority when dialing in your car. You can't be repeatable if you can't get repeatable traction. You can't even begin to address anything else until the traction issues are settled.
Very true, with our gears and converter 7600rpm provided a 8000rpm shift. The delay is usually 200-400rpm on most cars
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: Something's not right???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dual 4's View Post
Thanks for all the responses so far.

Motor - 10.5 compression, Aluminum Dart Pro1 - 200cc, Lunati Solid Roller #60131 - 237/243 @ 50, 566/578 lift, Victor JR, 1 3/4 headers, with 2 1/2 inch exhaust with 2 chamber Flowmasters.

Builder did not dyno the engine. It was dyno'd by a local shop that is highly recommended and know for real world power. So I am not too worried about the numbers not being accurate.

Good point on the shift rpm Greg. I did not take that into account. The lowest I set the light was 6000. Based on the tach recall, it sees another 300 rpm before it shifts.

I did want to try a set of shorter tires, but I only managed to get 2 tnt nights and now the tracks are closed for the winter I am not sure if I want to go to more gear, or shorter tire??? It is a street car, but for the next couple of years it will be 95% strip only. The local bracket guys here are telling me to do the tall gear (4.88 or 5.13) and big stall convertor too.

Suspension updates are on the Christmas list

Suspension is stock in front with cheap 3 way Comp Engineering drag shocks.
Rear has air shocks (I know, I know) and stock boxed arms with urethane bushings.

Even if I was spinning to half track...doesn't anyone think the MPH is still too low?
A few things I see
- The boxed arms with urethane bushings are ok but do you have the lower rears dropped using relocation brackets from like UMI? The Jeg's (SSM/Lakewood version) lift bars work nice too

- The camshaft is way out there in the left field, however for your converter you can't go much bigger. If you use a 5000rpm stall from ATI, the camshaft below has been 10.70/10.80's in the EXACT combo in a Nova with a fiberglass hood. I don't know what it weighs, so I figure 3350 or so, its just a radical street car

- For sure ditch the shocks, Dual adjustable's are nice, but I never liked the Competition Engineering rear shocks, I tried them compared to Summit's and the Summit's worked better. My buddy also tried my old shocks (Old Summit's) on his 1969 Chevelle, and it worked better off the line plus they are a bit cheaper than CE, although the Strange shock and QA1 is VERY NICE

- I would run a 30" tire and 5.14 gear, or 28"-29" and 4.88 gear with the cam suggested below, with your heads, Cam spec's below,,,
290/306 @.020"
260/268 @.050"
184/183 @.200"
.670"/.625" with 1.5's
106 lobe center
.012"/.018" lash
.960" base circle

With that camshaft, due to the exhaust being on the engine, I would suggest trying it 1.5/1.6 or 1.6/1.65 rockers.

Remember when you look at the cams, the engine does not see duration @.050" as the duration or window/time, It see's duration @.050", .100" and .200" and so on as AREA, what the engine see's as actual duration (The time the valves are open) is the SEAT DURATION

When we have a limited induction system on the circle track engines, we go say 290/284 on the seat as the intake need extra duration to give the cylinder more time to fill due to the limit in the intake track, plus the shorter exhaust duration puts less pull from not scavenging as much

Now when your limited on say the exhaust, which you are because you have a good cylinder head but can't get it out, so we are going to run a good split on the seat like 290/306 but it can hurt torque, however this grind doesn't because the exhaust valve's area does a complete reversal to keep torque up (Meaning @.050", .100" and .200" etc the area spread between the intake and exhaust is tightening up, to help build torque)

By the way, Flowmaster's really held us back and my buddies car too. An EXCELLENT street muffler is the Hooker Aero Chamber and Pypes. If you want a cheaper muffler, the DynoMax Ultraflo and Bullet's are good, About ten years ago I picked up a little over a tenth by going from Flowmaster Delta Flow 40's to DynoMax Bullet's, 2.5" system back then

The reason I suggest the 30" tire is you can get a larger foot print with the 30" tire. If you had a 28x9 and 30x9, and both tread width's were 9" wide, the 30" would have a larger foot print that the 28" thus MORE tire on the ground
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:07 PM   #22
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Default Re: Something's not right???

Get some lift bars for the rear they make a world of a difference. You can get the CE rear shocks and set them at 50 50 for a decent rear shock,that's what I run in the rear. Stay with the 29 tire and go 456 or 471 if they offer them.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:38 PM   #23
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Default Re: Something's not right???

Definetly going to try shifting lower...makes total sense to keep it near peak power.

We picked the smaller cam to try and keep the torque down low to help move the weight of the car. Plus I only wanted to go 11.50's, because I didn't want to put a cage in it....and the plan is to let my kid run it in Sportsman (12.00 and slower)

Sounds like I will be doing a gear change along with the suspension updates. I am thinking I may go 4.88 and keep the 29" for now, and then the next pair will be 28".

So what's the best bang for the buck Chevelle suspension?

I am thinking I will just put all new poly bushings up front with a new set of shocks.
For the rear, adjustable uppers and possibly lowers, with new shocks and springs.

I still have the front sway bar in the car...should I remove it?
I don't have one in the back, or an ARB...should I?
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:41 PM   #24
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Default Re: Something's not right???

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Get some lift bars for the rear they make a world of a difference. You can get the CE rear shocks and set them at 50 50 for a decent rear shock,that's what I run in the rear. Stay with the 29 tire and go 456 or 471 if they offer them.
Thanks. I've never looked or heard much about lift bars. I'll have to check them out.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:43 PM   #25
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Default Re: Something's not right???

I have a 71 if it helps on your suspension recomendations.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: Something's not right???

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I think it has to do alot with your shift by the time it shifts you are out of the power range and starting to fall off shift earlier when it is still pulling hard like 55 to 5700 this should help out alot.As far as air shocks i have been 1.47 60'with a 347 making 475 hp on a 29x10.5 with 4.56 gear weight 3550 but these small blocks have hell with getting these heavy cars moving torque kills us
What was your ET and MPH?
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: Something's not right???

Set the shift light for 5500rpm and see what it does, should be much better
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: Something's not right???

[QUOTE=Dual 4's;7238465]

So what's the best bang for the buck Chevelle suspension?

QUOTE]





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Old 10-18-2011, 12:15 AM   #29
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Default Re: Something's not right???

You might also want to think about stepping down to a set of 1-5/8" headers to take advantage of your engine's lower rpm power. 1-3/4 headers on a small engine that sees max power at 5800 rpm are overkill. I have 1-3/4" into 3" headers on my car and it runs 9s. My last set of headers were 1-5/8" into 2-1/2" and I used them up to the point where I was running mid 10s. I wouldn't worry about the Flowmasters though. Contrary to popular theory, my engine actually picked up power with 40 series mifflers and full 3" exhaust...ON THE DYNO! Every engine is defferent, but for mine, it actually made an average of 10 more hp across the 5800-7400 rpm band over open headers.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:59 PM   #30
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Default Re: Something's not right???

Best bang for the buck suspension is lift bars and 50 50 shocks for the rear and 90 10 for the front. Its all you need to run in the 11s.
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