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Old 10-18-2011, 10:43 PM   #46
55sedan
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

1--It was dead on I set the pointer up when I degreed the cam in but I will recheck it tomarrow.

2--Thats what I thought --- I figured the chain would have to be slapping the cover to let it retard 10*

3-- Dont know the spring pressure. These are out of the box Brodix BB2x heads with the 1.625 springs good for .800 lift. (I only have .725)

4-- It is a standard Gen 4 solid roller from Bullet.

5--Plug gap at .035'' Currently running NGK 7s

6-- Are you saying do away with the start retard just for testing to find the problem or get rid of it for good?


I will recheck TDC pointer tomarrow and let you know.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

I have it mounted under the dash along with the start retard and I also have the adjustable retard box mounted under the dash (has a dash mounted knob ---- I use it to put heat in the plugs in the pits & staging lanes. But i had all boxes unhooked last night when checking this stuff out. Only had 6AL2 box hooked up. And yes, there is a 2 awg power cable that runs very close to the 6AL2 box. Coil is mounted under dash also use a bulkhead connector from msd to go through firewall.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:59 AM   #48
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

Also wanted to add ---I have ran the timing as low as 33* (with light) The lower the timing, the WORSE the sputtering is going dwn the track.

Also have ran as cold as NGK 9s-- way too cold--- didnt take much idleing to get them looking bad.
The 8s and 7s look about the same to me. Cant tell a lot of diff.
If its been ideling a while it will take a couple passes to clean the 8s up to read them.
The 7s will clean up after 1 pass.

I check plugs with a magnifing glass that has a light from comp cams --- no signs of splatter or chipping everything looks good with 7s or 8s.
At 35* timing the mark will be just around the bend of electrode
At 38* it is 1/2 way between bend & base.

Like I said ---- the lower the timing the worse the sputtering.
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Last edited by 55sedan; 10-19-2011 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:05 PM   #49
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

OK Jeff checked TDC and its dead on. Only off 1/2 degree and thats probably the slack in the threads on my pointer.
Went bump to bump several times to verify.

Im really concerned about this timing set. I dont think its slack enough to be my retarding problem but I dont feel comfortable putting it back together with this set.
Those pics in the above post are not real clear but the difference in the red lines on top of the cam gear is 1/16'' Thats 1/16'' the chain moves on the gear
before it makes contact with the teeth enough to stop.

Today while checking TDC, you could actually see the crank gear turn and the chain not move, wasnt much maybe 1-2 degrees but Im not comfortable with it.
This block did have bad core shift, thats why I only bored it .030 over. It was align honed also, didnt take much to clean it up, but you never know??

Included these pics so you can see what I did.







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Last edited by 55sedan; 10-19-2011 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:37 PM   #50
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

Try another distributor,there have been several problems with the pick ups in the MSD distributors.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:38 PM   #51
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

get the power wire away and the coil away from the msd plug and box... BEFORE YOU DO ALL THIS GET A DIFFERENT TIMING LIGHT AND TEST IT.... FIND A PLAIN ONE WITHOUT THE ADVANCE KNOB ON IT. take a pic of the way you have the box and ign box setup so i can see if it getting induction from the coil wire or power cable... a blown diode most the time means the box got zaped by coil wire or power cable...
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Last edited by jeff c; 10-19-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:43 PM   #52
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

the timing chain is fine, it will put that much slack in the chain 5min after you fire it up.. once the engine fires the slack is tighten up and has NO effect on timing moving like this.. a loose timing chain will have timing jump all over at idle to the point you can't even see the timing marks on the balancer
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Last edited by jeff c; 10-19-2011 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:10 PM   #53
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

Good call Jeff,I guess I missed the post where he said everything was under the dash and close to the box. That is a big NO-NO,you can not have any power wires near the wire that goes from the distributor to the box,this includes 12 volt wires also.A battery powered timing light or the cheap chrome light from Sears is about the best I have found,the dial back style lights give false readings and the digital ones are even worse.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:17 PM   #54
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

how close is to close for the box and the coil to be?
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:19 PM   #55
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

Ok guys --- Thanks, Ill get those pics for you tomarrow Jeff.

Gonna run the valves and put it back together.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:13 PM   #56
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

i am in the middle of mounting my box and coil to a piece of aluminum sheet about 3/32" thick. I am then giong to mount this in the glove box.

Should i stop and figure out a different direction?
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:43 PM   #57
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

no^^^^ just make sure the power is away from the msd plug/wire and never get the coil anywhere near the the box or msd plug/wire.. put the coil as close to the dizzy as you can, so the coil wire is as short as you can get it...
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:58 PM   #58
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

i am putting a firewall feed thru so it will have two coil wires
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Old 10-20-2011, 08:39 AM   #59
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

Sometimes the trigger wires {usually blk w orange and blk with purple} are back wards, Reverse the polarity of the trigger wires, you will have to reset the base timming after reversing the trigger wires, it will move the base timming a lot, so don't be surprised how much you have to change the dist position. Go try it.. Also some {most} timming lights aren't worth shit over 3000 rpm, due to inductive delay they will always show less timing than actual... If you realy want to get your timming and rotor phase to be correct you should get the big cap and use a crank trigger...
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:00 PM   #60
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

I know there are some things wrong in these pics. Please dont take this wrong. I NEED your help and appreciate each and every one of you.
If I need to change it , I will.
But this wiring has been this way for 2 1/2 years with no problem until I put the 489 in this car. Thats when it started. Thats what made me lock the dizzy out.
Before I locked it out, the timing was jumping around everywhere at idle to the point that I could not set it. It didnt get stable until I locked it out.
Take a look.


Battery cable coming from battery in trunk to solonoid. Jumper going to firewall connector for all aftermarket stuff.
The only thing running off the factory fuse box is the lights on the car.
Power for ignition, water pump, fans, etc etc comes through this lug. The fuel pump for motor is powered straight off the main disconnect switch in rear of car through relays.



Inside firewall on pass side. Power lug on right. All those wires are going to the relays for w/pump, fans, etc.



Start retard box mounted on pass kicker panel. This is same spot that the 3-stage retard box used to be.



Adjustable timing control mounted in top of dash to side of original radio (no radio doesnt work)



The coil is mounted across the firewall away from all other boxes.




Coil wire comes from coil to firewall connector.



Coil wire coming out into engine compartment.



Im holding coil wire where it would be if dizzy was in. (very close to msd wire for dizzy)



Adj timing knob.

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