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Old 11-20-2011, 02:47 PM   #136
55sedan
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

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Originally Posted by malibu jim View Post
what part # distributor do you use and what part #cap did you switch to on the distributor. also can i ask what part # on the coil did you buy?
Dizzy #8570 pro billet small diameter

Cap Adapt kit # 8441

Coil # 8252 Blaster HVC ( They also have a HVC 2 )

Ign Box # 6421 6AL2
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:51 PM   #137
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

Great Thread!!!
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:15 PM   #138
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

Prolly already been said but it sounds like the pick up is connected backwards. Thats what it does on a crank trigger
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:51 PM   #139
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

I was going to ask first if you have a Starter Saver box from MSD hooked up ? in Higher compression engines the retard the timing 10 deg (or 20 if you clip the wires) till the motor reaches 800 rpm or so then it shuts off till the motor drops back to 800 again and will kick back in......some times they will mess up.
next I was gonna say that you really need to have a el-cheap-o self powered battery operated timing light to be sure your timing is right when you are running a MSD Dizzy of any type.....there is a lot of debate about how the Digital or regular timing lights will give you a false reading as well .....I know I run mine locked out and with a MSD Starter Saver and a Bronze Dist. Gear and just to check and see what is really what, so I set my timing with my digital Light and then went and double checked it with a cheap self powered lite and sure enough it was off by several degrees at 3000 rpm so I let it idle and re set it and when I slowly reved it up no problems and when I nailed it no problems so I have a Real Nice Digital Timing Light thats barely used that I will sell for 100.00 if anybody wants one lol

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Old 07-19-2014, 09:16 PM   #140
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

So I have this exact problem with a 6al box. Using a flaming river timing light. Tried 3 boxes and 2 dist. Only thing that seemed to change it is when you let the oil warm up. All it did was delay the retarding. I don't have a tach but I would say mine starts to delay cold in the 1500-2000 range. Warm it will stay steady up over 2000 then still go the full 12 degrees of retard. Also I've always worn the gears on the dist in this motor. About 10 races on it and its wore halfway through.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:47 PM   #141
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

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Originally Posted by racinnut15xm View Post
So I have this exact problem with a 6al box. Using a flaming river timing light. Tried 3 boxes and 2 dist. Only thing that seemed to change it is when you let the oil warm up. All it did was delay the retarding. I don't have a tach but I would say mine starts to delay cold in the 1500-2000 range. Warm it will stay steady up over 2000 then still go the full 12 degrees of retard. Also I've always worn the gears on the dist in this motor. About 10 races on it and its wore halfway through.
You need to look into this. My first thought is that the plug for the rear cam journal may not be installed at the correct depth. If not that, then check the intake manifold dist hole alignment.
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:04 PM   #142
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

Thought of something else racinnut ...... be sure that the block is grounded to the battery and if running alum heads, be sure that they have their own ground wire going to the block.
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:14 PM   #143
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

I didnt read the entire thread only the first 3 pages. We had this problem when our coil wire was routed to close to the pickup wires to the distributor. something to check.
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:45 PM   #144
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

Since this thread got resurected from the dead, I thought I would give an update.
I never did try a crank trigger.
Im still compensating the 5-6 degrees on the timing. I set it at 42-44 in order to get 36-38.
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Old 07-20-2014, 07:59 AM   #145
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

..... The MSD Box adds timing by way of 20* of Multiple Spark Discharge which goes away at around 3000 rpm when the box goes to single discharge .........
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Old 07-20-2014, 06:36 PM   #146
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

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..... The MSD Box adds timing by way of 20* of Multiple Spark Discharge which goes away at around 3000 rpm when the box goes to single discharge .........
How come some cars show this and some do not? This motor in my old car didn't do this. Same box and same coil. I spent half a day yesterday swapping dizzy's separate batteries, moving the dist wires away from the 12v wires.
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Old 07-20-2014, 07:42 PM   #147
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

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Originally Posted by racinnut15xm View Post
How come some cars show this and some do not? This motor in my old car didn't do this. Same box and same coil. I spent half a day yesterday swapping dizzy's separate batteries, moving the dist wires away from the 12v wires.
..... Yours sounds more like a mechanical issue ... what oil pump ? weight oil ? what base circle on your camshaft ? how much valve spring pressure ? even billet steel cam cores can do the snake dance when the base diameter is reduced enough ..........
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:14 PM   #148
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

make certain that you really really have 13 1/2 volts...!!!!!
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:06 PM   #149
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

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Originally Posted by 55sedan View Post
Since this thread got resurected from the dead, I thought I would give an update.
I never did try a crank trigger.
Im still compensating the 5-6 degrees on the timing. I set it at 42-44 in order to get 36-38.
Wow,.... Three yrs of this ..... This would drive me nuts knowing that something is not functioning as it should....

I've just started dialing in some tuning and my timing characteristics are very similar to what yours are right now however,.. it's intentional.

6al, 3 stage retard box(w/start retard) activated by rpm module, locked out MSD billet dist with an HVC coil (blue)... From all the people having issues in this thread, I better knock on wood !! ...
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:52 AM   #150
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Default Re: Timing retarding with locked out dist.

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Originally Posted by Horndog View Post
Thought of something else racinnut ...... be sure that the block is grounded to the battery and if running alum heads, be sure that they have their own ground wire going to the block.
That was one of the things i tried on saturday. Tried a diff battery, 3 boxes, 2 dist, made a new ground for the box. Moved the 12v wire away from the dist wires. Only thing i didnt try another of was a coil cause i didnt have one.

Oil is 20-50 renegade, not sure on pump havent asked builder(he is somewhat old school so i would think a HV, it has restrictors), not sure on base circle its a solid roller with just a 3.5 stroke so i dont think it would be small. The guy rebuilt it for me said the springs were about 40pds shy (i dont remember open or closed) of what he typically runs with his solid rollers.
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