cam recommendation 410 SBC - Page 8 - Yellow Bullet Forums

Go Back   Yellow Bullet Forums > Technical Section > Valvetrain - LGM Racing and Development

Valvetrain - LGM Racing and Development

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2011, 09:53 AM   #106
stealthmoderacing
Senior Member
Smoked another BBC
 
stealthmoderacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Palmyra,NY
Posts: 1,282
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

wow lots of info since i was last on yesterday, ok i would gladly be up for the challange. I was planning on dynoing the engine, however if you guys dont want me to i won't. However i will not be racing until april of next year. i have a weather station in my trailer so all the info would not be a problem. Most tracks around here are only 1/8 mile so if we aren't going to do a dyno test it would have to be on 1/8 mile. I would video tape everything so there is no BS on my end. dont forget though guys i dont want to be going through valve springs at a weekly basis, this is a bracket car.
stealthmoderacing is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-29-2011, 10:18 AM   #107
lun40119
I like IceCream
Smoked Another SBC
 
lun40119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Appleton Wi
Posts: 10,569
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

It won't be much of a competition..........Straub is a World Class Guy with cars all over the country that rip. Butch.......well......he is a good typer.
__________________
Jake
Team Clueless
Optimize the Compromise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
Hell no, big blocks are for dump trucks!!!
lun40119 is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 10:46 AM   #108
cstraub
Senior Member
Smoked another BBC
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,078
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthmoderacing View Post
wow lots of info since i was last on yesterday, ok i would gladly be up for the challange. I was planning on dynoing the engine, however if you guys dont want me to i won't. However i will not be racing until april of next year. i have a weather station in my trailer so all the info would not be a problem. Most tracks around here are only 1/8 mile so if we aren't going to do a dyno test it would have to be on 1/8 mile. I would video tape everything so there is no BS on my end. dont forget though guys i dont want to be going through valve springs at a weekly basis, this is a bracket car.
Billy,
If you want to dyno it that is even better. I'm up for it. You determine the max rpm you want power. You dyno both cams and the one that makes the most area over the curve wins.

I'm in.
cstraub is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 11:35 AM   #109
stealthmoderacing
Senior Member
Smoked another BBC
 
stealthmoderacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Palmyra,NY
Posts: 1,282
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

I will gladly do it... lets figure max RPM at 7,000 the heads will be brand new. new valve job, New valves, guides, springs, retainers etc. i will be putting in new push rods and lifters aswell. If you guys need to spec me 2 different valve spring sets i need to know. I would like for the same springs to work with both cams but i understand that my not be possible so i am prepared for that. The motor will have a brand new moroso vacuum pump pulling between 7-9 inches of vacuum. the rings are total seal AP top gapless. Top ring gap has been set to 38 and with the top rail. 2nd ring is napier and is set to 36. That sets me up for a 200 shot. I also want to add i went with those rings because i was told when not using nitrous which will be most of the time i will not lose performace eventhough the gaps are large. I will be running a brand new ken jones alky carb. the motor will be dynoed at Carl McQuillen Racing Engines in Le Roy, NY. I will video everything and document everything. I would plan on dynoing around the first of the year. No i do not have unlimited pockets i have to work for my money and save it, so yes it takes me a little bit of time. If you have any questions let me know. If you guys are serious about doing this i am game for it. If not i understand.

Last edited by stealthmoderacing; 09-29-2011 at 11:39 AM.
stealthmoderacing is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 11:45 AM   #110
lun40119
I like IceCream
Smoked Another SBC
 
lun40119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Appleton Wi
Posts: 10,569
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

I am all for this..........doubt it will ever happen though.......I have a bunch of 23 laying around, so if you need anything let me know. Maybe I will have it...Best of luck with the experiment............should definately separate the pro from the leaker!!!
__________________
Jake
Team Clueless
Optimize the Compromise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
Hell no, big blocks are for dump trucks!!!

Last edited by lun40119; 09-29-2011 at 11:47 AM.
lun40119 is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:22 PM   #111
lun40119
I like IceCream
Smoked Another SBC
 
lun40119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Appleton Wi
Posts: 10,569
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

Man.........I wish Butch was awake to accept the challenge.

But not having a job ever has given him the freedom to sit up and bang away on the computer all night, and sleep all day............while the rest of us go to work and cover the health care bill..............
__________________
Jake
Team Clueless
Optimize the Compromise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
Hell no, big blocks are for dump trucks!!!
lun40119 is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 03:42 PM   #112
stealthmoderacing
Senior Member
Smoked another BBC
 
stealthmoderacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Palmyra,NY
Posts: 1,282
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

i should also say that im not locked down on having the motor dynoed at mcquillens, if we do get the deal done to test both cams and there is a member on here with a dyno near the upstate, NY area, i have no problem bringing it there to verify the information that we find.
stealthmoderacing is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:36 PM   #113
cstraub
Senior Member
Smoked another BBC
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,078
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

I'm still in if you want to Butch. I don't want to see your cam and you don't need to see my numbers. OP will set max rpm and post the engine specs.
cstraub is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:47 PM   #114
trmnatr
Butch
Smoked Another SBC
 
trmnatr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,670
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

Quote:
Originally Posted by lun40119 View Post
Man.........I wish Butch was awake to accept the challenge.

But not having a job ever has given him the freedom to sit up and bang away on the computer all night, and sleep all day............while the rest of us go to work and cover the health care bill..............
Jake you are so full of $hit, I work for myself, and if you did deal with all the bull$hit with doctors I do, your a$$ would be retired. I have told you a 100 times, if you can't accept the fact your phucking dumber than a box of rocks and need Hooked On Phonics to teach you reading comprehension so you can understand what I have told you 100 times I don't know what to tell you other than go back to school.

I can not have my legs straight and can not lay on my back, thus it keeps me awake alot, the last 2 years I only sleep 1-3 hours maximum every night and 99% of the time this is in the chair. At first it did bother me, but I'm use to it now.

Since you are supposed to be able to work on your car and all, I'm sure you have had gas run down your arm and burn your arm. That is what my legs and back are like 99% of the time but worse feeling that this, to the point where they turn blood red at times. I have no feeling in my legs and right arm. A 1/4" socket which is not small, I can not pick it up unless I'm LOOKING AT IT, because I can not feel it with my right arm.

As to the health care, F^^K YOU Jake, You don't know me, All my $hit is paid for by me, and not people who work.

I hate people that abuse the systems the government has in place, My own cousin makes me sick because we are paying for his new Corvette, new Hummer and all that bull$hit while they are on Welfare too.

My mother had to apply for assistance when she had cancer but she was denied because she told the truth and did not lie like most who apply for help such as my cousin, because the insurance kicked her off the insurance due to an existing medical condition. Between friends and family, everyone helped out and we were able to come up with the cash to pay for all her cancer treatments with zero insurance after she was kicked off. All the medical for the cancer treatments was WELL OVER $20k

You accuse me of stupid shit like that, that I do not stand for or agree with the way people abuse the systems in place, That is why you will indeed hear from a Lawyer on the slander you just stated here accusing me of using the system which is indeed a low blow when I HATE THAT, along with the screen shot where you accused me of selling heads to buy drugs, YOU DON'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW ME ASSHOLE yet you spread lies. You will be contacted Jake Stelter

Now, As to the camshaft, it has been 8.40's+ in a similar build with no bull$hit Spintron testing, no multiple dyno sessions, showing an honest 620hp at the engine, with 1.5 Harland Sharp stud mounted roller rockers, 5/16" pushrods with 1.55" springs at 265 seat and 680 open and an as cast Victor Jr style intake.

Yes more than your old 400 with a Dart block, ported Dart Pro 1's, Lunati Roller Cam, Isky Springs etc etc that only made 600hp with 16 more duration that you built.

I'm not the one who was speaking of over sized cores, gun drilled cores etc etc to get this guys engine to go 8.50's or better. That is a total waste and sales hype as this guy needs NONE of that to run 8.50's and faster

I'm sorry if it lowers your sales, but you can run 8.60's in this mans ride with GM STOCK INTAKE RUNNERS in 30+ year old castings, with a flat tappet cam and as cast 2975 manifold.

Again, you add nothing to help the original poster, only to debate my suggestions so you can pimp your buddies products and/or services in your little circle which end up costing the original poster more money.
trmnatr is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:47 PM   #115
lun40119
I like IceCream
Smoked Another SBC
 
lun40119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Appleton Wi
Posts: 10,569
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

...must not want to get involved with the camshaft deal he bud...........

By the way.........everything I say is my opinion. And in this beautiful country, I am entitled to my opinion. God Bless the USA. Ill be waiting for that call bud.
__________________
Jake
Team Clueless
Optimize the Compromise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
Hell no, big blocks are for dump trucks!!!

Last edited by lun40119; 09-29-2011 at 08:50 PM.
lun40119 is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:55 PM   #116
lun40119
I like IceCream
Smoked Another SBC
 
lun40119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Appleton Wi
Posts: 10,569
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

It is my opinion that Butch is a...........
__________________
Jake
Team Clueless
Optimize the Compromise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
Hell no, big blocks are for dump trucks!!!
lun40119 is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 09:30 PM   #117
trmnatr
Butch
Smoked Another SBC
 
trmnatr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,670
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

Quote:
Originally Posted by lun40119 View Post
...must not want to get involved with the camshaft deal he bud...........

By the way.........everything I say is my opinion. And in this beautiful country, I am entitled to my opinion. God Bless the USA. Ill be waiting for that call bud.
It is my opinion your are a dumb a$$ person, who knows there is eight pistons and 16 valves but only checks piston to valve clearance on 1 cylinder.

The funny thing is, YOU USED YOUR MODERATOR PRIVILEGE to DELETE THE THREAD where YOU HAD PICTURES POSTED where YOU DIDN'T CHECK PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCES and WHERE YOU DIDN'T CHECK VALVE STEM HEIGHTS, and BLAME it on the guy who built the heads YET you were the engine assembler who should know every clearance in the engine.

Things make you wonder what kind of assembler put the engine together

Quote:
Originally Posted by lun40119 View Post
Tonight I got to take the new SHP build for a ride. Remember the roads are probably 45 here in eastern WI but at 75mph, it is hard to keep this car pointed straight. When I pull third, it spins the tires so hard it hits the pill. I have it set at 7500 right now. I am really happy with this engine. Best thing of all, I pulled into the Mobil station and filled it up with 93 premium. Man that stuff is cheap I have been running race fuel for the last 5 years in my street car. 5000-6000 miles a year with the turd.

So I wanted to say thanks to all who offered advice to me during this build. I really appreciate it. Don, Carl, Butch, Bill, and the Dart staff. This is a great place to come and have honest opinions given to you, and is a valuable resource to anyone who wants to come here and learn. Thank You.
Your forgot to delete this thread Jake

Quote:
Originally Posted by lun40119 View Post
Been gone for awhile, we left last weekend from Appleton WI and started the Power Tour in Madison WI. My wife took her 1968 Impala, and I drove my Chevelle with the SHP build you all helped with. And Jim took his 502 powered 68 Camaro that you have seen the dyno vids for. We raced at GLD on sunday near Racine WI. My short times are really sucking right now, I am having alot of problems getting the car to hook on 28x10.50's. On the way to the Detroit venue, I had a really bad vibration, which ended up being the bushing in the tailshaft of my TH-400. Got an excellent tip on where to go from a couple friends in Detroit. Lee's Transmission got me fixed up and on the road in a couple hours. Then we started south. Everything went well for the rest of the trip. Got to run at Thunder Valley which in itself was amazing. I made 5 or 6 passes. I have tons of video's, and pictures that I can post in this thread, but here is one of the coolest. It is in the vid in the middle of the page. For those of you that don't know, I have the red chevelle. Ill post up more pics later........



http://www.hotrod.com/2009powertour/...age/index.html
The Hot Rod Power Tour, hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS View Post
Nice ride Jake very impressed!!!
Carl Hinkson is impressed with your Dart SHP with ported Dart Pro 1's with shaft mounts, solid roller cam 400 making 600hp

Some things to make you wonder what the sales hype is going to be next week

Quote:
Originally Posted by lun40119 View Post
Thanks Carl, really I really appreciate the help with the engine.
I guess it made 600hp because MR PERFECT CARL HINKSON

NOW IF YOU GO BACK TO WHEN YOU WERE BUILDING THE ENGINE, or PLANNING THE ENGINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by lun40119 View Post
Looking at a new shortblock. Here is what I am thinking

4.125 Dart Little M
3.875 Stroke
6" Rods
13.5/1
Dart 215 Pro 1's
2.055/1.60
Lunati Cam 50140 w/ 1.6 rockers
308/318
276/284
.682/.688
106lsa


My questions are as follows, What carb would should I use. Are the heads ok with that set up, unported? What intake should I run? Will I need to use the small base circle cam. What kind of torque numbers should I expect, and at what rpm. Are there other opinions on cams that will peak in that 7500rpm hp and 5500 torque. I talked to Steve at Lunati and he thought that this would be a good cam. Thanks for the help in advance.
In bold is what you were looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trmnatr View Post
I would look at a 230 Pro 1 if you are serious about turning that RPM. If so, i would suggest a Lunati 50132 cam, Excellent Grind, It should pull hard to 7,200rpm with a 23 cylinder head on a 400-427cid. In a 331-355cid it will carry the 331 to about 8,400rpm and the 355 to about 8,100rpm. It likes 7,800rpm shift points on both of those engine combo's. Im gonna guess about a 6,800rpm shift on your 400+ CID engine.

The 50132 specs are as follows, 317/330 @.020 283/291 @.050 .680/.632 106 lobe seperation with 4 advance built in, Install the cam so the ICL is at 106. Run 1.5/1.6 rockers as this has ran quicker like this with this grind on 331 and 355 engines

The cam is said to be a good choice for Super Stock or Super Comp 327CID engines with 5,000+ stall and 4.88 or better. I say 5,500-6,000rpm stall and 5.14 or better gearing but in the 400+cid i would start with 4.56-4.88 gears

Off the top of my head that 50140 is like 279/284 @.050 or close to that, I have used that grind in the past and it is a good grind. The 50132 is very stable and easy on the valvetrain.

Also, with that engine i would also look at a Dart Single plane manifold. When tuning this combo in i would suggest reading the exhaust valves,ports and spark plugs to get the correct air/fuel mixture
For starters, back then, April 18th 2008 at 11:56 am I told you that your 215cc head was too small and you needed the Dart 230cc Pro 1 for starters

I then told you that the 50140 would not turn the RPM you wanted indirectly by suggesting the 50132 as a better choice and told you the 50140 was harder on the valve train than the cam I suggested.

You failed to listen, yet after Spintron testing, multiple dyno sessions you found out exactly what I told you April 18th 2008 at 11:56 am to be true

Quote:
Originally Posted by lun40119 View Post
Not sure which video you were watching Jeff............but both launches hit the pill at 8600. Trust me...................you will need all of your 350shot, to keep up to this thing on nut. Even though my car is 400lbs heavier.

Good luck on your adventure..........Hope to hear from you soon............

PS, the pass that it blew the tires off and I waited a couple seconds to see if it was broke...............it ran 16 something at 65mph........
How is that race going?

You told Jeff he will need every bit of the 350 shot that pushed him 9.60's just to keep up with you on the nut, your words little buddy
trmnatr is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 09:34 PM   #118
lun40119
I like IceCream
Smoked Another SBC
 
lun40119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Appleton Wi
Posts: 10,569
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

Look kids...........................he is Cuckoo For Cocoa Puffs!!!
__________________
Jake
Team Clueless
Optimize the Compromise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
Hell no, big blocks are for dump trucks!!!
lun40119 is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 09:35 PM   #119
lun40119
I like IceCream
Smoked Another SBC
 
lun40119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Appleton Wi
Posts: 10,569
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

In my opinion...................of course.
__________________
Jake
Team Clueless
Optimize the Compromise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
Hell no, big blocks are for dump trucks!!!
lun40119 is offline  
Old 09-29-2011, 10:09 PM   #120
trmnatr
Butch
Smoked Another SBC
 
trmnatr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,670
Default Re: cam recommendation 410 SBC

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
If we keep the OP's max rpm range cam would be:

800/720
283/281
109 Sep

If we turn the engine to 7000 rpm:
720/690
263/271
108
Chris you suggested cam in bold for the original poster when he said 7000rpm, due to reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by CROWER View Post
i bet more lift will help... why not 850" with a 1.6 and we can get the base circle down to a .875" maybe a .825"
You and Crower go into talking about services/products that is not needed in the original posters engine, other than to empty his pocket

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
If we are going to do that then lets gun drill it.
Even more BS he does not need to run 8.50 or faster

Quote:
Originally Posted by CROWER View Post
yes gun drilled with a .750" thru hole , boy those are super light.. how many you want ?
Then you and Crower went back and fourth with these gun drilled cams, again something that is not needed to reach the original posters goals

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthmoderacing View Post
This whole thread you guys are telling me my heads are too small and it will make the camshaft unstable.
This poster, is so confused with the bull$hit going on, thinking his heads are too small and thinking that is going to make the camshaft unstable with all the bull$hit he doesn't need

Quote:
Originally Posted by trmnatr View Post
Show me where I said your heads are too small You won't find it because I didn't say it.

Like I said, the goal of at least mid 8's has been done WITH GM 165cc runner heads for what its worth

You need to stop and think when someone makes a suggestion, Are they making it in YOUR interest, or making the suggestion in the interest of them or their best friend with a head shop/cam shop/engine shop etc
As I said, his heads are not too small. A much smaller head, in the same application has been 8.60's with a GM block, Nodular Iron Crank, Flat Tops, GM Stock Intake Runner Heads, Flat Tappet Camshaft and 2975 Victor Jr stock as cast intake winning multiple events and going many rounds every race including the US Pro Stock Open @ MIR

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1997bird View Post
It all depends on what parts you used in your engine, but your parts will wear less than the same engine at 7500 rpm or 8000 rpm. Just depends on what your goals are for the car to run in the 1/8 or 1/4 mile. This is my take on this engine combo that you have right now:

Crane lobes
299/302 @.020"
270/270 @.050"
191/193 @.200"
.723"/.714" w/1.6 rockers
.018"/.018" lash
110 LSA
108 ICL

Now then this cam is a slightly scaled down version from some Erson lobes that worked very well for my customer's 413 SBC dragster from earlier in the thread. However this Crane cam has more area @.200" than the Erson cam 191/193 vs. 189/191.
A poster offers his suggestion above

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthmoderacing View Post
my car with me in it weighs 1730 on the nose race ready, with my canted valve dry sump motor. I figure my standard sbc is gonna be about 30lbs lighter. so 1700lbs race ready. in all honesty i dont really care what ET it runs aslong as its faster than 8.50 which i think is a pretty easy goal with my light car. In a perfect world i would like to be 5.0's and 8.0's on motor and 4.80' and on a 200 shot. so i guess that would be the goal
At the 1700 pounds, the engine example I gave would run 8.50's EASY and maybe 8.40's with a stock block, GM nodular iron crank, I beam rods, Flat Tops, GM Camel Humps with STOCK intake runners with a flat tappet camshaft at that weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
Based on the IE ratio of those heads there is no way the camshaft will work with that duration split. She will hit a wall.
The debate started here, You told him his camshaft will hit a wall

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
I'm still in if you want to Butch. I don't want to see your cam and you don't need to see my numbers. OP will set max rpm and post the engine specs.
Now, the people reading have to ask and wonder, I suggest a camshaft, You suggest a camshaft for the engine in question.

When you debate another suggestion made, and people stick behind their suggestion, you are going to provide a different grind for the original posters engine than what you suggested

Ask yourself why? Did you suggest the wrong grind on the forum so it doesn't run, and when he calls you, you can grind him the correct camshaft?

I don't understand how you say a camshaft will hit a wall, yet when comparing them in the running engine you will not supply the camshaft you suggested. Why on earth wouldn't it be the camshaft you suggested in post # 85?
trmnatr is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 2.67%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Yellow Bullet LLC