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Old 06-30-2011, 09:59 AM   #1
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Default Mixing Methanol and gas

Been doing some thinking... How many of you have tried mixing methanol and race gas? I am more interested in calulating the specific gravity of the mixed fuel and also the dielectric resistance of the mixed fuel. I was thinking of mixing a small amout of methanol to some C19 or C25.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

Just be careful that the methanol and fuel don't separate. Once you put methanol in the fuel the DC will go positive for sure. It won't pass any fuel checks if thats what you want to know. Plus the gravity will go up also.
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

Well both gas, and methanol is legal... So I would assume gas mixed with methanol would be legal... Do you know what the dielectric reading of methanol is?
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

I mean chemically they don't like to stay in solution. It is like oil and water. Since methanol is over 50% oxygen, the DC would be very high.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

I am curious how it would react once under pressure
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

This is done quite a bit actually, I think it's Chuck Nyutten who even has a dedicated series of carbs for it.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:02 AM   #7
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

Those will not mix. Unless someone has come up with a 3rd "ingredient" that I am not aware of??
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

Did some searching..........Methanol can be mixed with gasoline without separation but it is much more sensitive to stratification than ethanol is. I know a guy in the UK that routinely runs 10% methanol mixed with gasoline.

The key to keeping it mixed is that both the alcohol and gasoline must be very dry (very little absorbed water). The mixture is also temperature dependent, at lower temps stratification is much more likely. Also the chemical mixture of the gasoline will effect how it mixes. Certain chemicals such as Acetone, and the aromatics like toluene act as "co-solvents" that help methanol mix with the gasoline.

In David Vizards book "Performance with Economy" he has a section on methanol gasoline mixtures. In one example a mixture of 89% gasoline, 8.9% methanol, 1.8% acetone and 0.3% water remains mixed. A mixture of 87% gasoline, 8.7% methanol and 4.3% water will separate at room temperature into layers (stratification).......So it seems it can be done but you need to add acetone and you need hot dry conditions to keep it mixed.

In hot dry conditions you can get up to about 20% methanol to dissolve in gasoline. Ethanol is much easier to deal with, which is why it is so popular in E85. It has very nearly the same power potential as methanol without many of its disadvantages.

The detonation and octane issues with alcohols are all over the map depending on the sources you read. For example the official octane of the E85 mixture is listed as 105 but in use it behaves like a 112-120+ octane fuel. It will tolerate 38-42 PSI boost in street applications with base compression ratios of 8:1. Even top line racing gasoline is hard pressed to beat those numbers. According to what I have seen methanol and ethanol are both more prone to preignition than gasoline. This is normally not an issue due to their high cooling effect but if you go too lean they will melt stuff just like gasoline.

In those areas where E85 is easy to find it would be the fuel of choice for alcohol blends, if not available methanol can be used within the above limits but you have to deal with all its down sides like corrosion, poisoning through skin, lung absorption etc.
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Last edited by bbc540racer; 07-13-2011 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

What is the advantage? IOW, why do it?
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

Because very similar to running pure methanol performance can be had without the oil dilution, corrosion, and other problems of methanol.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Breed View Post
Because very similar to running pure methanol performance can be had without the oil dilution, corrosion, and other problems of methanol.
Then just run E85....Mixing a very small % of methanol with gas will not be "very similar" to running pure methanol. E85 will be closer to what you are looking for.
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Last edited by bbc540racer; 07-13-2011 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

Can't get it around my parts.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

Not planning on a small amout, testing now with around 25%. Also my fuel system keeps the fuels mixed by byepassing enough back to the tank. The only time it is a problem at all is if I let it sit for a long time.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

Quote:
Since methanol is over 50% oxygen, the DC would be very high
This is also an advantage where oxygenated fuel is not allowed.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mixing Methanol and gas

I would just run 99.9% methanol then. Thats what I run and I dont have the "problems" with methanol. The only time you should have a milking the oil problem is if the tune is too rich, especially at idle. That is why I like mechanical injection because you can lean it at idle to get temp in the motor with the barrel valve. You can also do this with a carb with a lean out valve either in the intake or a spacer plate. The corrosion hasnt been a problem either. I just drain the system at the end of the season and run a little gasoline through it. You should call James Monroe and talk to him about it or just go to his website www.killerrons.com There is a ton of information on his website. Plus once you get a handle on the tune with regular methanol you can richen it a tad and try some VP M5 alky!!!
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