Cast Aluminum Block Issues - Page 2 - Yellow Bullet Forums

Go Back   Yellow Bullet Forums > Technical Section > Naturally Aspirated - Uratchko Racing Engines

Naturally Aspirated - Uratchko Racing Engines

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-28-2011, 10:57 PM   #16
mrhockey
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
mrhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Douglassville, Pa.
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Thanks for the reply. The bore is a 4.155 and I am running studs with the balls on the end so they don't bottom out and we have MAYBE put 1100hp to it this year on just a couple of occasions. Nothing crazy or 40lbs of boost or anything. Does that sound like an issue there? Why suddenly are the bores the wrong size? Did the manufacturer do his machining of the holes wrong of did they just suddenly all change. I think my builder put sleeves in 4,5 and 6. The OD of the sleeve doesn't match the manufacturers stock sizes they said they weren't theirs but we have an invoice from them for the purchase. They don't know how that size sleeve got on their shelf to ship out. Not really an issue since the machine shop could compensate for that but a strange screw up.

Cylinder bore Sleeve OD
1. 4.272 /4.272
2. 4.272 /4.272
3. 4.2725 /4.272
4. 4.282 /4.2815
5. 4.2725 /4.272
6. 4.2825 /4.282
7. 4.272 /4.272
8. 4.280 /4.282
__________________
2014 MARKETING PARTNERS:
LUCAS OIL / QUICK FUEL / ATI / M&M COMPETITION ENGINES / BMS RACING ENGINES / SMITH BROTHERS PUSHRODS / TOTAL SEAL / BOCCELLAS AUTO / JESEL / MICKEY THOMPSON / NGK SPARK PLUGS / CLARK INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY / DJ SAFETY / MOROSO

DEALER FOR;
JESEL
ACTION CAM NX
DJ SAFETY

HOLESHOT WHEELS
GZ MOTORSPORTS VACUUM PUMPS

NICKELS PERFORMANCE WAREHOUSE
WWW.MARSCHANMOTORSPORTS.COM

Last edited by mrhockey; 06-28-2011 at 10:59 PM.
mrhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2011, 11:13 PM   #17
Collinsautomotive
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 37,196
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey View Post
Thanks for the reply. The bore is a 4.155 and I am running studs with the balls on the end so they don't bottom out and we have MAYBE put 1100hp to it this year on just a couple of occasions. Nothing crazy or 40lbs of boost or anything. Does that sound like an issue there? Why suddenly are the bores the wrong size? Did the manufacturer do his machining of the holes wrong of did they just suddenly all change. I think my builder put sleeves in 4,5 and 6. The OD of the sleeve doesn't match the manufacturers stock sizes they said they weren't theirs but we have an invoice from them for the purchase. They don't know how that size sleeve got on their shelf to ship out. Not really an issue since the machine shop could compensate for that but a strange screw up.

Cylinder bore Sleeve OD
1. 4.272 /4.272
2. 4.272 /4.272
3. 4.2725 /4.272
4. 4.282 /4.2815
5. 4.2725 /4.272
6. 4.2825 /4.282
7. 4.272 /4.272
8. 4.280 /4.282

If you feeling creative, you could find a way to get the fastner to more evenly load in the block, but it would require alot of welding and milling to accomplish.
the studs aren't the proble, the problem is a lack of material strength around the tops of the bore where the head is trying to yank the deck off. with iron its not such a big concern as Iron has a much higher strength then aliminum by volume, the LS! blocks have a huge improvement here as the head bolt boss's are not attach to the cylinder bores and are rooted into the block structure in a much stronger manner.

Pretty much any motor with a tight bore space, large bore, aluminum contruction and a traditional 5 bolt layout, is going to have trouble with alof of cylinder pressure.
__________________
Henry Ford, on the stock market

Quote:
"As betting at the race ring adds neither strength nor speed to the horse, so the exchange of shares in the stock market adds no capital to business, no increase in the production and no purchasing power to the market."
Collinsautomotive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 08:14 AM   #18
mrhockey
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
mrhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Douglassville, Pa.
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Yeah I can see that the studs are close, but why SUDDENLY are the bores all the same size as the sleeves? I can understand distortion at the tops of the cylinders but not an expanding bore where there is suddenly no press. They are trying to say it's from the repair of the block. Why am I the only one with this problem? It's all Uratchkos fault for telling me to get a spread rail, raised cam block. Should have kept the old Little M!
__________________
2014 MARKETING PARTNERS:
LUCAS OIL / QUICK FUEL / ATI / M&M COMPETITION ENGINES / BMS RACING ENGINES / SMITH BROTHERS PUSHRODS / TOTAL SEAL / BOCCELLAS AUTO / JESEL / MICKEY THOMPSON / NGK SPARK PLUGS / CLARK INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY / DJ SAFETY / MOROSO

DEALER FOR;
JESEL
ACTION CAM NX
DJ SAFETY

HOLESHOT WHEELS
GZ MOTORSPORTS VACUUM PUMPS

NICKELS PERFORMANCE WAREHOUSE
WWW.MARSCHANMOTORSPORTS.COM
mrhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 10:58 AM   #19
69chicken
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
69chicken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Stl. MO
Posts: 4,672
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

I would bet Chris was referring to a Dart I.E. block. Still though I can't see any reason you should be having these problems @ that H.P. level unless it's a defective block casting. I think if this was mine I would want a new block with new sleeves or your $$$$$ back.
69chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 11:03 AM   #20
mrhockey
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
mrhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Douglassville, Pa.
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

That's what I want. I don't want to put any more money into that block. My machine shop offered to prep a new block for me at no charge which is cool but we will see. I still haven't heard from them today after a long email sent last night. Not trying to sound like sour grapes here but it just doesn't make sense.
__________________
2014 MARKETING PARTNERS:
LUCAS OIL / QUICK FUEL / ATI / M&M COMPETITION ENGINES / BMS RACING ENGINES / SMITH BROTHERS PUSHRODS / TOTAL SEAL / BOCCELLAS AUTO / JESEL / MICKEY THOMPSON / NGK SPARK PLUGS / CLARK INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY / DJ SAFETY / MOROSO

DEALER FOR;
JESEL
ACTION CAM NX
DJ SAFETY

HOLESHOT WHEELS
GZ MOTORSPORTS VACUUM PUMPS

NICKELS PERFORMANCE WAREHOUSE
WWW.MARSCHANMOTORSPORTS.COM
mrhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 07:54 PM   #21
RCM Racing engines
Senior Member
Smoked another BBC
 
RCM Racing engines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pa
Posts: 3,868
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Brodix has been having CASTING issues, not that you said it's a brodix.......BUT, i know of 2 BBC blocks recently that went back for repair

Sleeves were collapsing between the cylinders.....aluminum was breaking.....and the sleeves moved all around

These were tall deck BBC's making anywhere from 1140hp- 1210hp

I have a aluminum BBC 532 going together and i hope i don't have this $hit happen to me........ i wasn't impressed with there machine work

anyway, i mean really who makes 3 seperate passes 4 inches wide on a deck surface....... or leaves big chunks hanging off the sleeves after

Crank/ rod clearancing......... not IMPRESSED at all...............................especially for $ 5 K ++
__________________
An intellectual solves problems, A Genius prevents them..............
RCM Racing engines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 08:28 PM   #22
mrhockey
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
mrhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Douglassville, Pa.
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Thanks for that input RCM. Very informative.
__________________
2014 MARKETING PARTNERS:
LUCAS OIL / QUICK FUEL / ATI / M&M COMPETITION ENGINES / BMS RACING ENGINES / SMITH BROTHERS PUSHRODS / TOTAL SEAL / BOCCELLAS AUTO / JESEL / MICKEY THOMPSON / NGK SPARK PLUGS / CLARK INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY / DJ SAFETY / MOROSO

DEALER FOR;
JESEL
ACTION CAM NX
DJ SAFETY

HOLESHOT WHEELS
GZ MOTORSPORTS VACUUM PUMPS

NICKELS PERFORMANCE WAREHOUSE
WWW.MARSCHANMOTORSPORTS.COM
mrhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 08:48 PM   #23
kountryboy2
Friendly Shit Stirrer
Smoked Another SBC
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pinckneyville IL
Posts: 17,122
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Collinsautomotive View Post
you answer lies with the head bolts and how they clamp the head to the block. SBC is a bad motor for aluminum and big power with aluminum block. the head bolts try to yank the deck off the motor, the bigger the bore the bigger the problem is.
There are head studs that will fix that problem They start at $70.00 each.
kountryboy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 08:51 PM   #24
kountryboy2
Friendly Shit Stirrer
Smoked Another SBC
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pinckneyville IL
Posts: 17,122
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey View Post
So anyway this block now needs 8 sleeves I am told by the manufacturer. Suddenly not only do the 3 sleeves put in by my engine builder not have the right press but the other 5 put in by the factory a year ago do not either. They are pretty much all the same size as the bore. My builder ordered oversize sleeves so they could clean up the bores and waited for them and put them in with a .003 press. The manufacturer still has not addressed or told me how the sleeves could have been so out of round and haven't told me where they measured their cylinders at. They are trying to say maybe the engine builder put the sleeves back in cold instead of heating the block in the oven again. Wrong! They said the welds and repairs look good but are trying to explain how they happened. It doesn't matter.........they were fixed and aren't cracked but now everything is moving around. The builder tells me the block is stress relieving itself and moving around and if I pay to get it fixed it's going to happen again. He bets me his shop it will. I am starting to lose faith and the highroad is eroding by the minute.
Do you know how hot the block got in the oven? How long was it in the oven?
kountryboy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 09:04 PM   #25
mrhockey
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
mrhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Douglassville, Pa.
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by kountryboy2 View Post
Do you know how hot the block got in the oven? How long was it in the oven?
No sir I don't. I am trusting the builders and their building higher end stuff using cast and billet aluminum blocks and their knowledge. I might have to pass on the $70 head bolts too.
__________________
2014 MARKETING PARTNERS:
LUCAS OIL / QUICK FUEL / ATI / M&M COMPETITION ENGINES / BMS RACING ENGINES / SMITH BROTHERS PUSHRODS / TOTAL SEAL / BOCCELLAS AUTO / JESEL / MICKEY THOMPSON / NGK SPARK PLUGS / CLARK INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY / DJ SAFETY / MOROSO

DEALER FOR;
JESEL
ACTION CAM NX
DJ SAFETY

HOLESHOT WHEELS
GZ MOTORSPORTS VACUUM PUMPS

NICKELS PERFORMANCE WAREHOUSE
WWW.MARSCHANMOTORSPORTS.COM
mrhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 09:56 PM   #26
582nova
Member
Pullin gears
 
582nova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 539
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

im getting ready to purchase a 10.2 deck for a 632cui.my engine builder wants to fill it to the water ports.ill have to ask him if he is aware of these problems.how much weight will i really lose if the aluminum block is filled?
582nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 10:10 PM   #27
mrhockey
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
mrhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Douglassville, Pa.
Posts: 6,154
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

i thought about filling mine halfway but was told by the manufacturer to not worry about it but i also didn't want to take away from the main reason i bought the block, to lose 90lbs on the nose.
__________________
2014 MARKETING PARTNERS:
LUCAS OIL / QUICK FUEL / ATI / M&M COMPETITION ENGINES / BMS RACING ENGINES / SMITH BROTHERS PUSHRODS / TOTAL SEAL / BOCCELLAS AUTO / JESEL / MICKEY THOMPSON / NGK SPARK PLUGS / CLARK INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY / DJ SAFETY / MOROSO

DEALER FOR;
JESEL
ACTION CAM NX
DJ SAFETY

HOLESHOT WHEELS
GZ MOTORSPORTS VACUUM PUMPS

NICKELS PERFORMANCE WAREHOUSE
WWW.MARSCHANMOTORSPORTS.COM
mrhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 10:33 PM   #28
JB Arms
Senior Member
Smoked another BBC
 
JB Arms's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 2,211
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey View Post
i thought about filling mine halfway but was told by the manufacturer to not worry about it but i also didn't want to take away from the main reason i bought the block, to lose 90lbs on the nose.
Mine was filled about an inch or so at the bottom for reinforcement. I have a dart block, newer design. That's got to be a nightmare and you don't want it to happen again. Howard
JB Arms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 11:44 PM   #29
Collinsautomotive
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 37,196
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by kountryboy2 View Post
Do you know how hot the block got in the oven? How long was it in the oven?
Slowly cooling aluminum hardens it, quneching it anneals it.
__________________
Henry Ford, on the stock market

Quote:
"As betting at the race ring adds neither strength nor speed to the horse, so the exchange of shares in the stock market adds no capital to business, no increase in the production and no purchasing power to the market."
Collinsautomotive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 11:45 PM   #30
Collinsautomotive
Senior Member
Smoked Another SBC
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 37,196
Default Re: Cast Aluminum Block Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by kountryboy2 View Post
There are head studs that will fix that problem They start at $70.00 each.
How is a head stud going to stop the bore and deck from pulling to the point of deformation, its not like the fastner broke, the material around the stud is yeilding.
__________________
Henry Ford, on the stock market

Quote:
"As betting at the race ring adds neither strength nor speed to the horse, so the exchange of shares in the stock market adds no capital to business, no increase in the production and no purchasing power to the market."
Collinsautomotive is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 3.08%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Yellow Bullet LLC