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Old 12-07-2010, 12:02 AM   #76
Mike Beck
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Yes, and you don't want to know how much time and money we spent on the chassis dyno chasing our asses because of those damn wires!

Now, I have used the same MSD wires on all my stuff for the last 20 years and never had an issue. The 90* stuff is fine since the terminal is not getting bent. Not too happy with the "feel" of the terminals all the time when putting them on the plugs, but no real problems for me personally. I always make my own though so at least I know the spark plug end is correct!
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:36 AM   #77
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Ran the car and had the same problem.
Changed the coil, same problem.
After about 6 or so pulls... Reversed the polarity of the crank trigger pickup and immediately got another 1000 RPM and 100 HP. Spark was still breaking up but instead at 7000 RPM instead of 6000 RPM.
Tightened gap down to .016, no change.
Took fuel out from 10.8 to about 11.1. Got more RPM and power but still missing.
Added 2 degrees and took out fuel... more RPM and power less missing.
Added 2 degrees... less missing until finally no missing but still low RPM ceiling.
Finally we just stayed in it for a while to see what would happen and after a couple seconds, the driveshaft RPM would catch up and the motor would start climbing in RPM again (maybe the converter is hosed?). So we learned, stay in it and the motor will eventually climb after it's flatlined.

Every time we added timing the car picked up power.
We ran out of ice but had the thing close so we ran another pull and got 979 HP.
Next pull changed the warm water for cooler tap water, added timing and got 981 HP blowing the number 7 collector off the car at about 6500RPM... engine pulled to about 8000 and was still making power but we finally realized #7 collector was gone and fire was pouring out the head.

I think it would have made more power if we had ice and could keep the header on the car but I *think* we got the RPM problem solved... however, it doesn't make sense to me that too little timing or too much fuel would cause a high RPM miss.

I was also told that the way mustang dynos load the car, make them work really hard to make horsepower and that on other dynos, it would have made more... I dunno... it's just a number but I would have really liked to have gotten over the 1000HP mark.

Final pull was 981.6 HP @ 7708RPM (139.9 MPH) & 685 TQ @ 7489 RPM (125.1MPH). We never found out what timing it liked because it was still picking up when we stopped and AFR was still around 11.0 but we were out of ice and down a header tub so we stopped.

Blower made around 31# of boost.
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:47 AM   #78
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

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Old 12-07-2010, 07:44 AM   #79
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

What blower are you using, what heads,, are you using inter-cooler water for the engine too, or a radiator for the engine,what fuel? 11.54 {RP data at end of your pull} afr on a centrifugal blower car is a little fat,especially if you are using Q-16. As far as timing you will have to believe the dyno results and the spark plug reading.{the RP shows 23 at the end}. The timing trace is a little "shaky" or inconsistent,could mean that the crank trigger is loose,too close to the magnets, the sites on the map need to be interpolated {smoothed out}or the crank sensor is now backwards.
After reversing the crank trigger wires did you check the timing with a timing light? Reversing the wire changes the timing. On big stuff the green sensor crank wire goes to the red wire on the bs harness..The Chevy engines I have been around typically use a little more timing than the Fords..
If the tune is fat and the timing lazy it will make it misfire unless you are using a MSD-8 or a mag...
RP shows 17.9 volts,,that is on the high side for a bs ecu,, really need to leave the bat charger off during a pull, voltage has an effect on the way the ecu calculates fuel....
33.3 boost at the end,, When you get it right and will make around 1600-1700 hp or more if a BB ,,1400-1500 on a sb,, this car going to haul assss.... keep us posted.....
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:48 AM   #80
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Is this on pump gas or race gas? When I did my buddies car I ran it around 12.6 A/F (on C-16) and everytime we added 2* of timing it picked-up about 40hp to the tires. Stopped at 850hp, didn't want to put his GM steel crank or rods through the block or pan.

If you're running race fuel, Sunoco Maximal or C-16, I would lean that thing out a lot AND pull some timing out of it, you're gonna find a lot more power.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:10 AM   #81
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeld View Post
What blower are you using, what heads,, are you using inter-cooler water for the engine too, or a radiator for the engine,what fuel? 11.54 {RP data at end of your pull} afr on a centrifugal blower car is a little fat,especially if you are using Q-16. As far as timing you will have to believe the dyno results and the spark plug reading.{the RP shows 23 at the end}. The timing trace is a little "shaky" or inconsistent,could mean that the crank trigger is loose,too close to the magnets, the sites on the map need to be interpolated {smoothed out}or the crank sensor is now backwards.
After reversing the crank trigger wires did you check the timing with a timing light? Reversing the wire changes the timing. On big stuff the green sensor crank wire goes to the red wire on the bs harness..The Chevy engines I have been around typically use a little more timing than the Fords..
If the tune is fat and the timing lazy it will make it misfire unless you are using a MSD-8 or a mag...
RP shows 17.9 volts,,that is on the high side for a bs ecu,, really need to leave the bat charger off during a pull, voltage has an effect on the way the ecu calculates fuel....
33.3 boost at the end,, When you get it right and will make around 1600-1700 hp or more if a BB ,,1400-1500 on a sb,, this car going to haul assss.... keep us posted.....
  • F2
  • Brodix -12 (15 degree)
  • Intercooler water is for intercooler only, the water wasn't cold because we ran out of ice.
  • The car wouldn't rev beyond 6200 RPM with the trigger the other way.
  • We did not recheck the timing. I will write that on my white board.
  • Charger was off. It is a 16v battery with an alternator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Beck View Post
Is this on pump gas or race gas? When I did my buddies car I ran it around 12.6 A/F (on C-16) and everytime we added 2* of timing it picked-up about 40hp to the tires. Stopped at 850hp, didn't want to put his GM steel crank or rods through the block or pan.

If you're running race fuel, Sunoco Maximal or C-16, I would lean that thing out a lot AND pull some timing out of it, you're gonna find a lot more power.
VP Q16.

OK. We started around 10.5 and took away fuel until about 11.0. From there we added timing to lean it out and didn't think to try the other way.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:38 AM   #82
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

It has always been a debate on adding timing to "lean-out" the A/F. Technically the only way to lean-out or richen the engine is to change the air and/or fuel going into the engine.

Now, heat in the chambers is a whole 'nother story! That can be manipulated with the A/F ratio and/or timing.

To find what works-best is what certainly takes time and patience.

I would pull 4 degrees of timing out and lean the fuel curve out and run it around 12.4 A/F and work from there. I would rather run leaner with less timing, but that's me. A pump gas engine is completely different though!
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Old 12-07-2010, 12:52 PM   #83
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Beck View Post
It has always been a debate on adding timing to "lean-out" the A/F. Technically the only way to lean-out or richen the engine is to change the air and/or fuel going into the engine.

Now, heat in the chambers is a whole 'nother story! That can be manipulated with the A/F ratio and/or timing.

To find what works-best is what certainly takes time and patience.

I would pull 4 degrees of timing out and lean the fuel curve out and run it around 12.4 A/F and work from there. I would rather run leaner with less timing, but that's me. A pump gas engine is completely different though!
If you want to lean out the O2 readings without modifying the intake mixture you need to light it off sooner to get a more complete burn.
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:37 PM   #84
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

pm sent, you have converter problems.
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:38 PM   #85
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Crap... sounds like more money...
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:45 PM   #86
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Congratulations DJ,

Glad to see you are moving in the right direction. That is going to be one bad mofo when you get that tuneup cleaned up. Those little 8.5's are going to be growling for mercy !

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Old 12-07-2010, 02:48 PM   #87
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Wassup Paul.
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Old 12-07-2010, 04:20 PM   #88
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting



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Engine is SOLD!

DJ Reid - www.afromaro.com

1.17 60' on 275's and Leafs
5.02 @ 147 on 26x8.5's (Vid)
4.79 @ 151 on 275's (Vid)


Vortech Superchargers
Chris Alston's Chassisworks
Moran Motorsports
dad's Custom Tanks
T-Flow Racing Heads
Unlimited Fiberglass
Holley Performance
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Old 12-07-2010, 04:24 PM   #89
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Here is where we blew #7 primary off...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WadoTx1yIfU
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Engine is SOLD!

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1.17 60' on 275's and Leafs
5.02 @ 147 on 26x8.5's (Vid)
4.79 @ 151 on 275's (Vid)


Vortech Superchargers
Chris Alston's Chassisworks
Moran Motorsports
dad's Custom Tanks
T-Flow Racing Heads
Unlimited Fiberglass
Holley Performance
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Old 12-07-2010, 04:51 PM   #90
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

12.4-12.5 with Q-16 works well for us,, at 12.7-13.0 Q-16 blower cars start to slow down.. as for timing I look at plugs and egt readings,, I Could tell you a timing number we run on my buddies car with a similar combo but I don`t want to be liable for burning prts up.... As you get closer on afr and timing don`t make any pulls with out ice in the intercooler system..

Last edited by michaeld; 12-07-2010 at 04:55 PM.
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