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Old 12-01-2010, 09:27 PM   #46
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

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When I first setup the camsync I did it at 50 (my crank ref) + 20. I was then told that was wrong and I needed to do it at 20* so I changed it.
Check that... I set it in at 70*... too many numbers to recall.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:27 PM   #47
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

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Originally Posted by Greg Kelley View Post
I'd really like to see you check rotor phase with a timing light thru a hole in the cap.
That's how I set it... it's still at 20*
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:47 PM   #48
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Today I...

Flushed the fuel rails.
Flushed the fuel feed lines.
Pulled all the injectors and put air through them in the front and back while pulsing them with power.
Put an LED in each injector plug on the harness and made sure the lights blinked in firing order.
Checked the firing order on the cap and plug wire order.
Checked the cap for derbies.
Checked cam sync (@70*)
Checked crank sync (@50*)
Checked phase (@20*)
Checked 5 & 8 for spark with a spare plug against the block.

The car seems to idle fine but I didn't run it long enough to get decent heat in it to measure the cylinders.

I plan on...

Checking the magnets on the crank trigger (even though 8 & 5 fired).
Compression test.
Leakdown test.


What do you guys run for gap on the crank trigger? Anything I miss?
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:52 PM   #49
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

.060 give or take a bit.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:09 PM   #50
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Some one mention this,, sometimes one or more magnets will be in the crank trigger wheel backwards, check the timing on every cylinder, #1 and 6 will read actual timing, the rest should be in 90 degree increments from #1 timing. best to use a timing light with adjustable knob, set #1 to 0 then the next cylinder in the firing order will be 270 then 180 then 90 so on... If there is a cylinder that is around 7 degrees off then the trigger wheel is junk... I don`t think 7 degrees will make it miss at idle but it will have adverse effects under load,,,
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:22 PM   #51
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Leave the distributor unplugged and see if does the same thing. Have you looked in your individual correction tables to see if you have crazy values in those cylinders?
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:44 AM   #52
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

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Originally Posted by michaeld View Post
Some one mention this,, sometimes one or more magnets will be in the crank trigger wheel backwards, check the timing on every cylinder, #1 and 6 will read actual timing, the rest should be in 90 degree increments from #1 timing. best to use a timing light with adjustable knob, set #1 to 0 then the next cylinder in the firing order will be 270 then 180 then 90 so on... If there is a cylinder that is around 7 degrees off then the trigger wheel is junk... I don`t think 7 degrees will make it miss at idle but it will have adverse effects under load,,,
That's a great test to perform.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:51 AM   #53
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

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Also if you are using a msd ignition with a rpm limiter chip try removing the chip, and latley many people{including myself and 2 of my customers} have had problems with the msd 8261 coil, it miss-fires under load when you get a bad one.
My brand new 8261 coil went dead after 20 hits. Just ordered a new one.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:58 AM   #54
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

What were the results of the compression test? I would also change cam sync to 10-15 from crank ref, so 60-65* btdc. You have checked the injectors and the ecu with a noid light, more than likely it is a mechanical issue. What kind of lifters are in the engine? I spent 2 days chasing my tail on an engine dyno because the engine builder wanted to argue with me that the efi system was messed up. After changing every part multiple times it was actually 3 lifters that caused all the issues.
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:33 AM   #55
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

When I did my Holley DIS system I spun the engine over with no sparkplugs in it, left them hanging off the ends of the wires, and checked each and every cylinder to make sure the timing was correct. I did not use a dial-back light, just knew that I had to go 0, 270, 180, 90 and then repeat that one more time. Was a piece of cake.

The reason I had to check it is because I had to wire those 4 coil packs to the correct terminals in their harness and also put the correct firing order in the ECM. If any of that was screwed-up it wouldn't be firing in the correct order.

So, I only say this as a simple example of how to double-check the firing order.

Of course, unplug the fuel pump relay or the injector harness so no fuel goes through the engine!
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:01 AM   #56
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

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What were the results of the compression test? I would also change cam sync to 10-15 from crank ref, so 60-65* btdc. You have checked the injectors and the ecu with a noid light, more than likely it is a mechanical issue. What kind of lifters are in the engine? I spent 2 days chasing my tail on an engine dyno because the engine builder wanted to argue with me that the efi system was messed up. After changing every part multiple times it was actually 3 lifters that caused all the issues.
if you watch the video of DJ's car on the dyno.. i would have to place blame on the white guy driving the loud pedal behind the wheel on this one
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:43 AM   #57
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

Are you sure the valve timing firing order and the ignition firing order are in (the same) order? Jus' askin'.... this is like a 4-7 swap or a Windsor/289-302 cam mix-up.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:40 AM   #58
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

After all the stuff I did earlier, all holes seem to be firing and making heat. #8 seems a little low but it is a corner cylinder and it was nowhere near as low as before.

We also noticed that it make a big difference *where* you take the temp on the tube with the infra red gun. I don't want to... but I'm thinking about springing for the RP EGTs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeld View Post
Some one mention this,, sometimes one or more magnets will be in the crank trigger wheel backwards, check the timing on every cylinder, #1 and 6 will read actual timing, the rest should be in 90 degree increments from #1 timing. best to use a timing light with adjustable knob, set #1 to 0 then the next cylinder in the firing order will be 270 then 180 then 90 so on... If there is a cylinder that is around 7 degrees off then the trigger wheel is junk... I don`t think 7 degrees will make it miss at idle but it will have adverse effects under load,,,
I ran this test without using te knob since my balancer is numbered all the way around. Timing was at 32 so I looked for 8 to be around 300 (360 + 32 - 90) and it checked out good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace Meyer View Post
Leave the distributor unplugged and see if does the same thing. Have you looked in your individual correction tables to see if you have crazy values in those cylinders?
I'm not sure what you mean by "leave the distributor unplagged". Are you saying remove the cam sync signal and see if it swaps cylinders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrew View Post
What were the results of the compression test? I would also change cam sync to 10-15 from crank ref, so 60-65* btdc. You have checked the injectors and the ecu with a noid light, more than likely it is a mechanical issue. What kind of lifters are in the engine? I spent 2 days chasing my tail on an engine dyno because the engine builder wanted to argue with me that the efi system was messed up. After changing every part multiple times it was actually 3 lifters that caused all the issues.
Leak down came in less than 10%.

Cam sync right now is 20 from "the desired" crank ref of 50. Actual crank ref is 41, actual cam sync is 70.

Lifters are Crowers.
Re-ran the lash (which wasn't that out) and checked all pushrods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeti View Post
Are you sure the valve timing firing order and the ignition firing order are in (the same) order? Jus' askin'.... this is like a 4-7 swap or a Windsor/289-302 cam mix-up.
It's a 4-7 swap. I went through all the wires today and even hooked LEDs to *all* of the injector plugs to ensure the lights went off int he proper firing order as well.

I made a couple transbrake pulls but the converter is a bit looser than I thought it would be. Motor jumped up close to 6 and started to flatten (or I chickened out on the throttle)

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Engine is SOLD!

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5.02 @ 147 on 26x8.5's (Vid)
4.79 @ 151 on 275's (Vid)


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dad's Custom Tanks
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:24 AM   #59
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

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Originally Posted by turbogt View Post
My brand new 8261 coil went dead after 20 hits. Just ordered a new one.
MSD has had a lot of problems with the 8261 in the last 18 months,, I lost a round of competition cause the new {2 passes} 8261 went bad {miss fire under load, like it on the rev limiter} have been replacing them with the big red Mallory coil. Car seems to rev higher with the Mallery than it ever did with a 8261 coils....
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:38 AM   #60
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Default Re: Took car to the dyno... Need help troubleshooting

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Originally Posted by 67AfroMaro View Post
After all the stuff I did earlier, all holes seem to be firing and making heat. #8 seems a little low but it is a corner cylinder and it was nowhere near as low as before.

We also noticed that it make a big difference *where* you take the temp on the tube with the infra red gun. I don't want to... but I'm thinking about springing for the RP EGTs...

I ran this test without using te knob since my balancer is numbered all the way around. Timing was at 32 so I looked for 8 to be around 300 (360 + 32 - 90) and it checked out good.


I'm not sure what you mean by "leave the distributor unplagged". Are you saying remove the cam sync signal and see if it swaps cylinders?



Leak down came in less than 10%.

Cam sync right now is 20 from "the desired" crank ref of 50. Actual crank ref is 41, actual cam sync is 70.

Lifters are Crowers.
Re-ran the lash (which wasn't that out) and checked all pushrods.



It's a 4-7 swap. I went through all the wires today and even hooked LEDs to *all* of the injector plugs to ensure the lights went off int he proper firing order as well.

I made a couple transbrake pulls but the converter is a bit looser than I thought it would be. Motor jumped up close to 6 and started to flatten (or I chickened out on the throttle)

Blower car on the brake with no chip usally goes to 7000+ when running correctly,, in fact we don`t leave the shop unless we see 7200 on the car I drive.... If you are only going to 6000 it means it isn`t running properly under load.. Trans brake rpm with no chip isn`t the same stall speed as it will be running down the track...
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