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Old 08-07-2011, 04:33 PM   #136
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

I hate this thread. Every time this thread gets going, seems like they change the rules and everyone gets faster except me. Not really experienced in heads up racing, this being the only heads up series I have ever been in, but I thought the idea was to build to the rules with whatever budget and experience you have? Not make rules fit each car and every budget. No more rule changes, I still don't understand the weight break for the clutchless transmission last year. I have no budget and everytime a rule changes, seems like it costs money I don't have.

I agree with Ben completely

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Old 08-07-2011, 04:37 PM   #137
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

Best way to control costs for a class is to NOT change the rules. Not everyone can be competitive, not everyone can win, hello, welcome to life. Different class, but look at Keven Fontineau racing an all AMC powered Gremlin on 10.5. Chances he wins, not good, but he does it anyway. I'm sure he knows there are better ways to to be more competitive than running AMC power and yet continues along. Want to race a small block in All Motor? It's going to cost you much more money, much more time and require you and your engine and chassis people to be much much smarter then everyone else.

Butch has done it, he doesn't think it's worth it. That cool, but he has shown it can be done. Sure you can win a gun fight with a knife, occasionally, but it's easier if you bring a canon.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:54 PM   #138
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

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Originally Posted by Ben Mens View Post
IF someone wants to build a car for a class, ANY class, it takes a certain amount of time for the average racer. Yes, some can write a check and buy something quick, while others need time. This could be as long as a season or two. If the class is constantly changing rules, what is an attractive combination today is not so attractive tomorrow because it is either penalized for performance or, another combination is given a "break" because it's lack of performance warrants it. You now have a class with lot's of rules, the least desirable parts (under performers) become the best combination and the class becomes unattractive as a whole and people do not build new cars to populate and repopulate the class. Just watch, a "conventional head" big block combination will be vying for top position as early as next year........
I thought a conventional head deal won the other night.........
I thought this discussion was about SB vs. BB..
Ben,...we all know a 640" conventional head deal at 3150 or thereabouts can do some serious damage...problem is..who cares to do it???
build a new dart head/manifold engine...new headers,drivetrain,converter, or stick,driveshaft,center section, blah/blah..
knock your self out.
you had (have) a 460+" small block that "should" run at the top now,.....if the rules are good then why not keep going with what you have??
same conversation....different week..
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:11 PM   #139
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

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I thought a conventional head deal won the other night.........
I thought this discussion was about SB vs. BB..
Ben,...we all know a 640" conventional head deal at 3150 or thereabouts can do some serious damage...problem is..who cares to do it???
build a new dart head/manifold engine...new headers,drivetrain,converter, or stick,driveshaft,center section, blah/blah..
knock your self out.
you had (have) a 460+" small block that "should" run at the top now,.....if the rules are good then why not keep going with what you have??
same conversation....different week..
Your missing the point Sir. This is not about me. I said leave the rules alone. Just like they are NOW. DO NOT CHANGE THEM ANYMORE. I am o.k. with them. I was out there friday night with 399" and racing. I am not quitting, I am not crying for rule changes. I recommend that they be left where they are and let's race. I will run what I have when I have it. Would I run something different if I had an opportunity? Certainly. Would I go off and exploit a complete one off combination for this class only? Highly doubtful. Would others? Most certainly. Look where all of the progress came from the last two years.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:27 PM   #140
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

Leave the rules alone. There are many platforms with all sorts of rule structures around the nation for n/a heads up, no breakout racing and NONE are ultra successful. We deal with what we have, and just keep on keeping on unless a freak deal runs off with the class beyond intellectual honesty in the capability of it, versus the rest of the field.

And right now, NOBODY is running off with the class. That itself must be worth something.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:35 PM   #141
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

Heck you had one of, if not the baddest small blocks ever built in this type of format show up, and that wasn't running away either.

Things aren't that bad. What's bad, is that most racers don't want to spend 100+ grand on an n/a car and then deal with the huge battle of learning how to n/a race. For that kind of money they'd rather run a power adder car and go faster. I don't think it's more difficult than that reason.
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:32 PM   #142
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

I will agree, while some of you choose to continue to make progress with your programs the question presented is how to help milan be prospurous at the same time? if we dont collectively help them build the field how long do you all think they can survive? Ben, Butch, Chris, and anyone else watching what would be wrong with adding a Small Block field????

P/S im in the game up to my ass and will be out next year not just a keyboard racer!
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:36 PM   #143
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

A few things worth mentioning
- A/M was dominated by small blocks for 3 yrs straight (3 championships)
-Mags car (small block ford) was the fastest car for years
-Small block entries have been dual duty cars
-FAST big blocks are Milan A/M combo's

***ANYONE that feels its EASY to build a large big block car and win it all.......bring it!! Its alot harder than it looks. Just because you may not see valves being lashed after every round, doesnt mean that ALOT of shit doesnt happen away from the track. It takes a HELLUVA lot more than cubic inch /cylinder heads to win Milan A/M.


Ben is correct, the rules need to be left alone. This class is GREAT because of what it is and has been......not what "it should be".

Anyone interested in starting a "new" class - have at it....and GOOD LUCK. Hell, we cant keep a x275 or OLS class.......and they are both the hot ticket right now.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:43 PM   #144
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

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A few things worth mentioning
- A/M was dominated by small blocks for 3 yrs straight (3 championships)
-Mags car (small block ford) was the fastest car for years
-Small block entries have been dual duty cars
-FAST big blocks are Milan A/M combo's

***ANYONE that feels its EASY to build a large big block car and win it all.......bring it!! Its alot harder than it looks. Just because you may not see valves being lashed after every round, doesnt mean that ALOT of shit doesnt happen away from the track. It takes a HELLUVA lot more than cubic inch /cylinder heads to win Milan A/M.


Ben is correct, the rules need to be left alone. This class is GREAT because of what it is and has been......not what "it should be".

Anyone interested in starting a "new" class - have at it....and GOOD LUCK. Hell, we cant keep a x275 or OLS class.......and they are both the hot ticket right now.
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:16 PM   #145
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

Hey old school you could always race on Sunday's..That is probably your best option! LOL.
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:15 PM   #146
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

OMG........ your right this is just unbelieaveable...... leave the rules alone and bring in a small block class? stop whinning and discuss why thats such a bad idea??????? WTF some of you guys are freaking out like this post is the end of the world lets discuss it, i feel like im in washington lmao.....
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:22 PM   #147
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Hey old school you could always race on Sunday's..That is probably your best option! LOL.
Hey you've known me long enough! im gonna be there no dramma! trying to break my shit every round! FRI, SAT SUN, it dont matter its my sickness you guys can fight over the rules! i just thought it be nice to kick some SBC ass and not have to deal with the thumpers !


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Old 08-07-2011, 10:25 PM   #148
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

Not enough cars show now to fill the current field. Where will they come from to fill another????? Small block vs big block, same as Ford vs Chevy, etc., makes the class "entertaining".
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:35 PM   #149
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

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OMG........ your right this is just unbelieaveable...... leave the rules alone and bring in a small block class? stop whinning and discuss why thats such a bad idea??????? WTF some of you guys are freaking out like this post is the end of the world lets discuss it, i feel like im in washington lmao.....
What exactly is there to discuss?.....that hasnt been discussed a million times already?

If you really feel there is a need to change or add a class - go for it. Get your troops together and approach Milan about it. I'm sure you'll get atleast 3-4 cars backing your wishes.
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:43 PM   #150
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Default Re: 2011 A/M Rules

While Butch and Kevin Patterson were dominating the class for 3 years straight, I didnt see Van or Alan on here asking for rule changes. They took the current rule set (at that time) and built cars around them, not vise versa.

The same could be done with a purpose built small block car. The problem is, people have a real hard time building a 100k car for a 6 race series that pays $1500 to win. Someone will do it....you can pretty much bet on it. Then these topics will swing the other way.
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