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Old 05-19-2010, 09:26 PM   #76
Ben Mens
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Default Re: A/M Rules

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Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
I think it's a hint Ben.... "You need a...." I offered to let you try mine. Someone should use it!!!
What ratio(s) you got?
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Old 05-19-2010, 11:25 PM   #77
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Default Re: A/M Rules

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Originally Posted by BONDOBOB View Post
a All Motor class should be weight per cubic inch
not small block weight vs big block weight

doesnt take long to pump a motor to check them
X2
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Old 05-20-2010, 09:51 AM   #78
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Default Re: A/M Rules

Weight per cubic inch would certainly help level the playing field somewhat. But it changes the hot combination from the biggest possible engine to the smaller displacement, wildly over-square, higher revving engines. What happens when someone builds a class-killer small displacement engine in a lightweight car to the new rules and is 2-3 tenths in front of everyone who didn't have money to do a new engine.
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:24 AM   #79
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Default Re: A/M Rules

Here's a suggestion:
1. Rename the Friday Night All Motor to Outlaw All Motor
- remove all the +/- weights (scoops, suspension, transmission)
- allow sheetmetal intakes and twin carbs
- 29.5 Tire
- BB and SB weights only
LET'R EAT !!!

2. Create a new class on Saturday - Limited All Motor
- have a big - giant list of rules for every +/- weight possible
- pump everything, measure everything, etc
- 28'' Tire (or 29.5)
- weight to cubic inch
- lets not forget the 2'' tail pipe idea, this is a must!!
- Make it a 32 (or bigger) field, that way EVERYONE gets to race
- Possible weight break for the un-employed
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:34 AM   #80
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Default Re: A/M Rules

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Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
X2
Do you honestly think a weight to cube would help you? You run a 565, correct? I guarntee you your stuff is no where near as efficent as the small blocks! You gonna run at 3550-3600lbs against 2800lb efficent small blocks?

Butch went 6 tenths faster than your Camaro. With a weight to cube, your car would only get heavier. You would need to pull 2.2-2.3 per cube to keep up. His car is already at a weight to cube type weight.
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:20 PM   #81
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Default Re: A/M Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem View Post
Here's a suggestion:
1. Rename the Friday Night All Motor to Outlaw All Motor
- remove all the +/- weights (scoops, suspension, transmission)
- allow sheetmetal intakes and twin carbs
- 29.5 Tire
- BB and SB weights only
LET'R EAT !!!

2. Create a new class on Saturday - Limited All Motor
- have a big - giant list of rules for every +/- weight possible
- pump everything, measure everything, etc
- 28'' Tire (or 29.5)
- weight to cubic inch
- lets not forget the 2'' tail pipe idea, this is a must!!
- Make it a 32 (or bigger) field, that way EVERYONE gets to race
- Possible weight break for the un-employed
It actually doesn't have to be that extensive. See my earlier comments about exhaust outlet restriction.
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:21 PM   #82
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Default Re: A/M Rules

driver diet....
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:34 PM   #83
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Default Re: A/M Rules

I'm just an outsider wishing i had a dog in this fight, but how do you guys feel about the psca rule book with the n/a class? would that make it fair to the folks that don't think it is?
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:39 PM   #84
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Default Re: A/M Rules

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It actually doesn't have to be that extensive. See my earlier comments about exhaust outlet restriction.
Of course it has to be extensive! They need a rule for everything, that way everyone is happy and no one could get around any of them. The door was left a little open last time, but hell....if your going to rewrite, make sure you got everything covered.

$100 bucks says someone still shows up and pisses everyone off!
BET ?
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:50 PM   #85
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Of course it has to be extensive! They need a rule for everything, that way everyone is happy and no one could get around any of them. The door was left a little open last time, but hell....if your going to rewrite, make sure you got everything covered.

$100 bucks says someone still shows up and pisses everyone off!
BET ?
Everyone can't be happy all the time but stuffing a cork in the engine's fanny in combination with a good, durable tire and weights that are easy to achieve & measure will do a heck of a lot. Hood scoops & all of that won't help when the thing is a bit constipated.

Know this from experience in other racing venues.
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Old 05-20-2010, 03:31 PM   #86
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Default Re: A/M Rules

You guys are thinking way too hard......................its as simple as disallowing digital ignition boxes......????????how hard is that to change??
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Old 05-20-2010, 03:55 PM   #87
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You guys are thinking way too hard......................its as simple as disallowing digital ignition boxes......????????how hard is that to change??
Fundamentally Butch, I agree with you from the standpoint that it won't require very many line items for rules to shore things up a bit.

For what it's worth, analog boxes were another thought I've had for this and this is also based on experience with other racing venues that require an 8" treaded DOT tire.

The only problem in the A/M application is the analog box can help even things up at the bottom of the track but there's still a ton of room for a small few with deep pockets to run ~10 MPH faster than everyone else.

Bottom line from my end is instead of trying to make guys like you or Alan bend over backwards it'd be better to start a fresh class that has a lot of consideration placed into it from the beginning so the folks with less discretionary funding can race & not feel hopeless.

Instead, take enough time up front to define some rules that essentially make extraordinary spending become a futile exercise and let the growth & gains be the primary result of applied ingenuity & hard work on the car.

This same approach has done well in other racing activities where the discrepancies in raw engine HP from highest to lowest are huge but other class requirements actually can make the big power become a detriment. Results vary but in general it winds up generating bigger car counts, more participation, etc. etc. etc.
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:35 PM   #88
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Default Re: A/M Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch Kemp View Post
You guys are thinking way too hard......................its as simple as disallowing digital ignition boxes......????????how hard is that to change??
sounds like you're running full timing from start to finish...
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:35 PM   #89
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Default Re: A/M Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROB View Post
Fundamentally Butch, I agree with you from the standpoint that it won't require very many line items for rules to shore things up a bit.

For what it's worth, analog boxes were another thought I've had for this and this is also based on experience with other racing venues that require an 8" treaded DOT tire.

The only problem in the A/M application is the analog box can help even things up at the bottom of the track but there's still a ton of room for a small few with deep pockets to run ~10 MPH faster than everyone else.

Bottom line from my end is instead of trying to make guys like you or Alan bend over backwards it'd be better to start a fresh class that has a lot of consideration placed into it from the beginning so the folks with less discretionary funding can race & not feel hopeless.

Instead, take enough time up front to define some rules that essentially make extraordinary spending become a futile exercise and let the growth & gains be the primary result of applied ingenuity & hard work on the car.

This same approach has done well in other racing activities where the discrepancies in raw engine HP from highest to lowest are huge but other class requirements actually can make the big power become a detriment. Results vary but in general it winds up generating bigger car counts, more participation, etc. etc. etc.
When then its simple.....
Buy a piece of land, build a track, take all the time you want to come up with a set of rules, promote it, find racers and Whaalaaa!
You have exactly what you want.

In the mean time, we'll be racing. See ya dude!
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:43 PM   #90
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Default Re: A/M Rules

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Originally Posted by Butch Kemp View Post
You guys are thinking way too hard......................its as simple as disallowing digital ignition boxes......????????how hard is that to change??
Or hide? You guys are making too much out of this. I told my coach in Little League that giving everyone a trophy would cause a problem some day...........
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