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Old 05-17-2010, 09:50 PM   #16
BONDOBOB
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Default Re: A/M Rules

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Originally Posted by david2 View Post
I agree, but thats not going to happen, there is not enough time on a friday. Plus you still can't run a 600inc conventional vs non coventional at the same weight.

everyone knows what CI they are at
enter CI on tech card with the weight you should be at
and conv. head vs non conv. head with weight break
run them across the scales after each pass and only pump the last 4 cars after the race
dont make the weight after pump then be DQ and no pay out
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: A/M Rules

it depends on the motor, and conventional head bbc only shows a high 70s low 80s so just to show you its only two cars that are bbc in the class is not conventional and there the top 2 so don't hate on all the bb guys
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: A/M Rules

biting tongue
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: A/M Rules

One race and the bitching begins.

Why dont we all see what some of the other cars that couldnt make this race can do. Some people have some power left as they tune on the setup.

I'm not happy with the numbers I seen either.

If there is a rule change I say deduct from cars not add.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:44 PM   #20
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Default Re: A/M Rules

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Dave I went 1.16 60' against van's 1.26 and I still got out e.t.'d by .03???????? its only logical math......but anytime I talk about something "I'm crying"??????
Glad someone else brought it up.
I am going to try and be as unbiased in this discussion as possible from the racer in me, not the engine builder. Of course I can only be so unbiased, but please bear with me, I do not want the us against you, we against them situation... I want there to be civility between us all so please understand that.

Butch a 3500 pound car isn't going to go 1.16 60's on those tires. So that is not a good argument. That is not apples to apples. AGAIN, in the utmost respect with civility, You can't get around the fact that you went low .20's with a limited engine, in a non limited class. You say there is no more to gain with your combo, and I agree to a point, but you stand to gain big in the heat by default.

I agree as a racer, that things are spiraling out of control. As a racer, I agree that an .18 is getting crazy.

Guys you need to step back, and not do knee jerk in reactions. Knee jerk reactions never fix a bad situation. You need some time to see things play out before you go and make critical changes....

We are not in the heat of summer, where the heavy car will be HEAVILY impacted by the poor track conditions that are resultant.

Now let me switch modes here to an engine builder.

I have a big SBX small block coming out that will be fast, in a fox body for this class specifically. You're going to remove weight from this combo? That would be a big mistake because this is a combo developed for the class. Where, we are talking about removing weight for small block combos that are not optimized for the class? What is all your answer to that, given the situation I'm presenting here?

What happens when you remove weight from limited small blocks and then someone comes in with an outlaw small block? That IS going to happen, from multiple people soon.... now the big blocks are struggling, and even more so in the heat.

I don't know the answer.

What I do know, is that we have a VAST, Diverse field of conventional and non conventional engines and combos. 4 links, ladder bars, and stock suspension cars. Conventional heads, Outlaw heads and manifolds, things of that nature.

You all want to harness that in? And build structure around it? That is a little like Robin hood if you ask me. Taking from those who have built to the rules and giving to those who have not. Or is that communism? It's no wonder Obama got elected.

Lets address the suspension issue. The fastest 60 footing car the class has ever seen, has a suspension weight break. Is that right for the class? No, I do not want to change that. But it's an example of rules that have possibly been put in place as a knee jerk reaction.

So we need to bear everything in mind and not make crazy rule changes after only one race....
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:55 PM   #21
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Default Re: A/M Rules

IMHO, the only way to correct it is to leave the current, exotic combinations where they are at and build up the more conventional combinations up around them.

In other words, enable the more conventional stuff to run faster, without impacting the current fast combinations.

Weight breaks for conventional BBC heads is a good start.

I don't mean weight breaks for every damn combination on the planet either..... that is nothing BUT A CIRCUS.

I don't know what to do with the small block heads, because you have a SB2 head running 40's and 50's, and a wedge head running .20's. What's the answer to that?

As for weight, Alan already runs heavy.... 100 over the current rule will not slow that car down and only make things more dangerous.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:56 PM   #22
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Default Re: A/M Rules

Adding weight will only aggravate things for sure. Don't punish BB's give to the SB's. Fans want a show, slowing down the BB won't do that so speed up the SB. But should wait and see who else shows up for the show
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:06 PM   #23
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Default Re: A/M Rules

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Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
IMHO, the only way to correct it is to leave the current, exotic combinations where they are at and build up the more conventional combinations up around them.

In other words, enable the more conventional stuff to run faster, without impacting the current fast combinations.

Weight breaks for conventional BBC heads is a good start.

I don't mean weight breaks for every damn combination on the planet either..... that is nothing BUT A CIRCUS.

I don't know what to do with the small block heads, because you have a SB2 head running 40's and 50's, and a wedge head running .20's. What's the answer to that?

As for weight, Alan already runs heavy.... 100 over the current rule will not slow that car down and only make things more dangerous.
Good post Chris. What are your thoughts on intakes? Do you think
spec intakes would work in the class?
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:09 PM   #24
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Default Re: A/M Rules

Mark I think any intake rules are a mistake. Guys with money will have intakes 'made', and disguised... it's not even really that much money in the big picture. Now you have guys who think it's right to abide by the rules and run a legal intake and then you will have guys willing to spend the loot to have a 'good' legal intake...

It's alright to leave the sheet intakes out in my opinion, but personally, I don't care either way on that deal.

But restricting the type of work that goes into a cast intake just spells $$$$$ You can limit the outside of the intake to remain stock.... some type of rule like that.... but even that can get costly as people will do 'slight' changes to gain the edge and disguise it.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: A/M Rules

I also think that rules in the end cost more $$$$ as people try to work around them to keep the same performance level.

Money is tight for most folks so run what ya have and try to have fun.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: A/M Rules

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Originally Posted by david2 View Post
How about -25 to 50 for SB
conventional -50 to 75 BB
non coventional -0 BB

Dave that's pretty good IMHO.

Conventional BB at 3200, or 3150... could be fast.

I'd like to see what Bennetts car would run with a Flight in it... that would be a big indicator to what the stick needs for weight. I can't hardly give my opinion on that considering my position, but what the hell it should be 0.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:43 PM   #27
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Default Re: A/M Rules

URE combos + 100 lbs
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:00 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post

Conventional BB at 3200, or 3150... could be fast.
Sounds good
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:47 AM   #29
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Default Re: A/M Rules

X2
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: A/M Rules

So people are asking for a conventional BBC to get a weight break but a traditional pontiac has to weight the same as a BBC without a weight break???
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