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Old 04-07-2010, 10:29 AM   #1
Scottyk
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Default Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

Heres the deal, GM makes sealed crate engines where you cannot remove the intake, front cover, oil pan, heads.. What would you do to find more power???

Heres some specs.
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...&engCat=racing

You can run basically any fuel, I have heard of people getting the timing covers off, turning engine upside down to change cams but you cant put a higher lift cam in or it could be found. Have to run same valve train including springs, rev limit set at 6200, any holley carb but have to use a certain part number spacer so a dominator is out of the question.

Water injection? fuel additive?
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:00 AM   #2
Matt Compton
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

I have done a-lot with 602 crate. Know this....GM No longer supports these engines with sealing bolts or repair parts! You can get bootleg sealing bolts anywhere online. Stock cam works good advanced 4 degrees. Use a demon or HP holey no more than 700cfm DO NOT USE RACE FUEL. Replace the module in distributor with something else that is aftermarket but stock appearing. If they only check #1 cylinder in a lift check you can put 1.6 rockers on the rest and gain some.

Put a rv990 spring on it with damper removed adds about 20#'s of seat pressure keeps float down at 6000+ rpm.

Locking out the timing is worth 10 lbs of torque down low.

that's about it without busting it open. if you want to go there PM me and I will give a list of "liberal rules interpritation" modifications.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

Someone tryin to get ahead in saturday night dirt racing?
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

Quote:
Originally Posted by whtcoupe View Post
Someone tryin to get ahead in saturday night dirt racing?
LOL actually I race on a 1/4 mile asphalt track, "yes like the madhouse show" and mine makes more power than needed, I actually put on a vacum secondary carb and a lazy timing curve to smooth and dampen it a little. I was tossing some thoughts around my head the other day "a little un-conventional" and thought I'd see if anyone here has tried them and to throw out new ideas without cracking this engine open.
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

Ohh gotcha, yeah i have a few friends that race modified dirt class. Crate 1 is the sealed motors and crate 2 is "modifieds". I don't know of any secrets for those sealed motors, you'll have to get damn creative. Is your class limited with a 6k chip?
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

6200 is our rev limit, use it quite a bit
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Old 04-07-2010, 01:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

How are they rev limited?

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Old 04-07-2010, 02:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

its a msd soft touch box.. used with factory gm hei. They check the box and sometimes supply their own chip, check wiring and such. CANNOT hide the wiring, must be open for inspection.
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

$12K will get you a good Crate Engine that is built around the "Gray" area of the rule book.
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

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Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
$12K will get you a good Crate Engine that is built around the "Gray" area of the rule book.
Obivously a cost save for the average Saturday night late model racer.

Making a LOT more power with those engines & getting it through the tech barn undetected has been the practice for several years now, even when they are "serviced" at most of the "authorized" rebuilder locations.

The $12K price tag listed above isn't out of line at all and the sad thing is $12K will buy you a tweaked-up pile of mostly Chinese and cheap parts that really aren't worth saving at time of rebuild. All of a sudden the $5K upfront cost for an engine becomes $12K and rebuilds are at or above $2K.

Compare this to a cost of around $30K for a real engine with real parts in it that can be run at 8K peak RPM on a 1/2-mile for 10 or more seasons with the same rods, crank, block, rockers, cam, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Now turn the RPM down on the good engine to where a crate POS can run without blowing itself apart......How many more seasons without changing parts, and how many additional parts won't need to be changed with any regularity?

I personally hate crate engines with a passion. There was and will never be a completely effective way to police sealed engines and they will cost more over the full lifetime of an average racer (approx. 7-10 years).

Car companies should stick to developing, building, and selling vehicles for transportation. No reason for them to kill the local engine building shops by throwing substandard packages out there that misleadingly appear to be low cost. Upfront, maybe. Long term, no way.
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROB View Post
Obivously a cost save for the average Saturday night late model racer.

Making a LOT more power with those engines & getting it through the tech barn undetected has been the practice for several years now, even when they are "serviced" at most of the "authorized" rebuilder locations.

The $12K price tag listed above isn't out of line at all and the sad thing is $12K will buy you a tweaked-up pile of mostly Chinese and cheap parts that really aren't worth saving at time of rebuild. All of a sudden the $5K upfront cost for an engine becomes $12K and rebuilds are at or above $2K.

Compare this to a cost of around $30K for a real engine with real parts in it that can be run at 8K peak RPM on a 1/2-mile for 10 or more seasons with the same rods, crank, block, rockers, cam, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Now turn the RPM down on the good engine to where a crate POS can run without blowing itself apart......How many more seasons without changing parts, and how many additional parts won't need to be changed with any regularity?

I personally hate crate engines with a passion. There was and will never be a completely effective way to police sealed engines and they will cost more over the full lifetime of an average racer (approx. 7-10 years).

Car companies should stick to developing, building, and selling vehicles for transportation. No reason for them to kill the local engine building shops by throwing substandard packages out there that misleadingly appear to be low cost. Upfront, maybe. Long term, no way.
I agree with most of that, I dont like the crate motors killing the local engine shops business, but when you can claim a NON-crate engine in the class for 450$ and you CANNOT claim a crate engine!!!! It sure makes sense to spend 3200 on a crate engine that makes as much or more than 95% of the claim engines. I have seen these crates last for years and years, I have been running same one, with 2 new sets of valve springs for 5 full time seasons. They do last a long time, but this thread isnt to debate that, I just wanted to hear some of the more creative things people have done/ or can think up to try because I know there is alot of really knowledgable people on this site, I have seen some crazy shit on these boards..
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

There is a much cheaper way to give the racers good motors and some flexability for low cost... one day some tracks will wake up to a restricted 5.3L GM Truck motor and these things will be cheap again. For some reason these rule morons who think flat tappets, iron heads and 2bbl's make open motors cheap need to wake up!

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Old 04-07-2010, 06:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

getcha one of them purtty blue bottles and spray it --just dont get caught
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

Does any one no where to buy the tags that they put on the head studs on sprint car motors.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Increasing power with a sealed crate engine..

Im thinking more of things that can be done EXTERNALLY to the engine, ya know, more of a clever way to coax more power out of it.. Not really intentionally opening the motor and cheating, looking for more gray area type stuff here.
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