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Old 04-20-2009, 02:09 PM   #91
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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Originally Posted by John Langer View Post
If you want to hear a grown man laugh. With the current rules, ask Tony if he could build a competative Pontiac.
What, would he lie and say NO when he actually has
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:14 PM   #92
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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If 1 person showed up with a $25k non-qualifying NHRA pro-stock piece, it would run teens or twentys. Then everyone would quit just like they do in other heads up series.
Come on John, you know that if a DRCE engine dominates RAM 10.5, they would tag it immediately, nobody is that stupid.......but you are right, they could easily do it.........but that rule change that would immediately come from it (NO DRCE or PS Heads allowed), would be a correct one, unlike these 5-7 class rules.......

But hey, knock yourself out driving 1000+ miles to race w/ 5 other cars..........I understand, things that turn other people on (4 of them) not necessarily turns on the rest of the millions out there
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:15 PM   #93
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Default Re: Atco Testing

I dont make the power to run with the BBC. Last year I was giving up 60hp for 100lbs. No combo can/should run with the 15* sbc.
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:19 PM   #94
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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Originally Posted by John Langer View Post
Last year the Tiger head had to carry 75lbs over the base. I could deduct 100, not 175.
Heck, if Langer cant keep up, give him another 75, if a Mopar cant keep up, just laugh at them and not allow them to run a competitive head.......but hey, whatever
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:21 PM   #95
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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Originally Posted by 68CudaB1 View Post
Come on John, you know that if a DRCE engine dominates RAM 10.5, they would tag it immediately, nobody is that stupid.......but you are right, they could easily do it.........but that rule change that would immediately come from it (NO DRCE or PS Heads allowed), would be a correct one, unlike these 5-7 class rules.......

But hey, knock yourself out driving 1000+ miles to race w/ 5 other cars..........I understand, things that turn other people on (4 of them) not necessarily turns on the rest of the millions out there
A fast/small BBC would fuck everything up in RAM. The 'big" BBC's that show up run big chief style heads, they just aren't maximum effort. Rich makes too many concessions to allow people that aren't competative to be competative. If I run RAM legal at Maple Grove and run .30's and the next closest car runs .50's, what do you do, hit the Pontiac and make it run at a BBC weight when it doesnt make the power or hit the 525 with weight?? If a 500' DRCE2 shows up and runs teens, how much more do you hit that cylinder head with weight?? The monster motors are already upset about having 650", big chiefs, 2 dominators and having to weigh 3550 but only run .50-.60's.
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:24 PM   #96
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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Heck, if Langer cant keep up, give him another 75, if a Mopar cant keep up, just laugh at them and not allow them to run a competitive head.......but hey, whatever
Is there any other current NMCA Pro Stock racer that has gone to as many races as I have? I honestly don't know if anyone has been to more races then me?? I was told in the beginning to show up with a maximum effort piece, run the series and then possibly rules could be adjusted. If they felt I was lacking something, I changed it. Not go to 2 races and say fuck it, i'm not going to waste my time since I can compete.
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:25 PM   #97
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Default Re: Atco Testing

John/NMCA.......

Lets take a look at the Tiger Head vs the B1 original in OTB format going by DCI and Brodix figures.........keep in mind, your head gets 125# weight break......

Tiger - DCI states 400-plus cfm out of the box on the intake side and 450-plus cfm with porting

B1 - Brodix states 396 cfm otb on the intake side and see if anybody can get a B1 original to 450, NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS!!

Your head is better.........Why in the world do you get 125# ??????????? Please help ............Jeff???????

BTW John - IF, and I mean a BIG IF, you go 30's......NO, I would not want a rule change......now if a DRCE would, then hell yes......
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:32 PM   #98
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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Originally Posted by John Langer View Post
Is there any other current NMCA Pro Stock racer that has gone to as many races as I have? I honestly don't know if anyone has been to more races then me?? I was told in the beginning to show up with a maximum effort piece, run the series and then possibly rules could be adjusted. If they felt I was lacking something, I changed it. Not go to 2 races and say fuck it, i'm not going to waste my time since I can compete.
Is that how you get weight breaks handed out to you, just show up more often
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:35 PM   #99
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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Originally Posted by 68CudaB1 View Post
John/NMCA.......

Lets take a look at the Tiger Head vs the B1 original in OTB format going by DCI and Brodix figures.........keep in mind, your head gets 125# weight break......

Tiger - DCI states 400-plus cfm out of the box on the intake side and 450-plus cfm with porting

B1 - Brodix states 396 cfm otb on the intake side and see if anybody can get a B1 original to 450, NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS!!

Your head is better.........Why in the world do you get 125# ??????????? Please help ............Jeff???????
First off, don't believe the numbers DCI puts out. The more lift I put in the cam, the more the bore shrouds the valve. There is more to a motor then just the heads, sure they are important but lets look a little further into my hunk of shit. It has a 10.220 deck height. I can not get or make my block any lower then 10.170. My motor comes with 3.25" mains. They advertise that I can run a 4.400 bore but I can't get a 4.350 to seal up. The exhaust ports are siamese with NO water between them. The push rods are almost 11". With a .900 offset, you can't get bigger then a 3/8 to 7/16 push rod in it. There are only 10 head bolts on a 4.600 bore spacing motor. The motor is around 100lbs heavier then a BBC. I can go on...
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:35 PM   #100
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Default Re: Atco Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Langer View Post
A fast/small BBC would fuck everything up in RAM. The 'big" BBC's that show up run big chief style heads, they just aren't maximum effort. Rich makes too many concessions to allow people that aren't competative to be competative. If I run RAM legal at Maple Grove and run .30's and the next closest car runs .50's, what do you do, hit the Pontiac and make it run at a BBC weight when it doesnt make the power or hit the 525 with weight?? If a 500' DRCE2 shows up and runs teens, how much more do you hit that cylinder head with weight?? The monster motors are already upset about having 650", big chiefs, 2 dominators and having to weigh 3550 but only run .50-.60's.
I guess Henry Jackson's NA PRO motor that dominated for a couple years in RAM PRO, is not that max effort..........if you are not aware, I believe that motor was put into another car and he could not get it hooked up consistently all year on TRUE 10.5's in our class
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:40 PM   #101
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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Originally Posted by John Langer View Post
First off, don't believe the numbers DCI puts out. The more lift I put in the cam, the more the bore shrouds the valve. There is more to a motor then just the heads, sure they are important but lets look a little further into my hunk of shit. It has a 10.220 deck height. I can not get or make my block any lower then 10.170. My motor comes with 3.25" mains. They advertise that I can run a 4.400 bore but I can't get a 4.350 to seal up. The exhaust ports are siamese with NO water between them. The push rods are almost 11". With a .900 offset, you can't get bigger then a 3/8 to 7/16 push rod in it. There are only 10 head bolts on a 4.600 bore spacing motor. The motor is around 100lbs heavier then a BBC. I can go on...
How about compare it to a MOPAR, we are not talking about BBC.......you have the better head and you know it when comparing to a Mopar B1 original..........

As I have told you personally, I am impressed by you and your car, you make some steam..........but come on NMCA, show us Mopar guys a little "Langer Love" by allowing the MC head
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:41 PM   #102
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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Originally Posted by 68CudaB1 View Post
I guess Henry Jackson's NA PRO motor that dominated for a couple years in RAM PRO, is not that max effort..........if you are not aware, I believe that motor was put into another car and he could not get it hooked up consistently all year on TRUE 10.5's in our class
It dominated?? I recall a certain white Pontiac showing up and running .2 faster then the field so it got hit with a ton of weight. Then someone went out and bought a $15k BBC and had the field covered by .3 so the 4.900 bore spacing motors got whacked with weight. There is more there then you can imagine. That class is done. The only class that is fine is DR.
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:44 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by 68CudaB1 View Post
How about compare it to a MOPAR, we are not talking about BBC.......you have the better head and you know it when comparing to a Mopar B1 original..........

As I have told you personally, I am impressed by you and your car, you make some steam..........but come on NMCA, show us Mopar guys a little "Langer Love" by allowing the MC head
I'm telling you, you have to show up first. This isn't field of dreams "if you build it, they will come". Andy over in x/s I believe got a head but he has supported the class and series for years. "Langer Love" was what the weight being thrown on me in 2008 was about. A few people cried fucking bloody murder about my junk and weight was thrown on me. That 75lbs was purely a business decision and I still showed up. I can't compare my junk to a B1 since no one shows up with a maximum effort piece to compare it to. I went 8.80's back in 2005 just like the mopar, I am going faster now as well just like the mopar should be.
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:46 PM   #104
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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It dominated?? I recall a certain white Pontiac showing up and running .2 faster then the field so it got hit with a ton of weight. Then someone went out and bought a $15k BBC and had the field covered by .3 so the 4.900 bore spacing motors got whacked with weight. There is more there then you can imagine. That class is done. The only class that is fine is DR.
Come on John, stay on topic...........we were talking about whether or not that engine SHOULD HAVE dominated 10.5, and it DID NOT!!
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Old 04-20-2009, 02:50 PM   #105
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Default Re: Atco Testing

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I'm telling you, you have to show up first. This isn't field of dreams "if you build it, they will come". Andy over in x/s I believe got a head but he has supported the class and series for years. "Langer Love" was what the weight being thrown on me in 2008 was about. A few people cried fucking bloody murder about my junk and weight was thrown on me. That 75lbs was purely a business decision and I still showed up.

Fortunately, I let somebody else spend the money to try it out, it wont happen......PERIOD!

For what it is worth, Andy only went 50's at Cecil on Juice......a B1 original head in XS would be very competitive, maybe we will try that instead of trying to add another car to P/S.......I think Andy runs Indy, IMO, not gonna happen with an Indy

Allow the MC head and we will come, not that NMCA wants an outspoken person like me in their series
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