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Old 01-02-2009, 01:16 AM   #1
1fastacvw
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Default ball bearing vs. journal bearing

im getting ready to buy a new turbo and would like some input between a bb turbo vs journal bearing.

the bb turbo spools quicker then journal but in a drag race situation once spool at the line does it really make that much difference when you leave. i could see in auto it wouldnt but in manual maybe it would becuase of rpm drop.

my car is manual, rpm drop is prob 4k max between gears.

ty
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:58 AM   #2
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bb will spool slightly quicker...
the bb will recover quicker on a pedel , and gear change
they both should provide the same over all performance

more to do with the tune
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:01 AM   #3
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in a small cube motor say around 350ci a bb turbo would be better. The more cubes,the more it will help the turbo spool. So bigger cubes a journal turbo would spool just as fast.
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:36 AM   #4
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This may not be true with all BB turbos but something i found out was most BB center housings are not rebuildable. Where most if not all journal types are. I just rebuilt my mitsu t-88 for 100 bux and it's running strong.
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stony View Post
This may not be true with all BB turbos but something i found out was most BB center housings are not rebuildable. Where most if not all journal types are. I just rebuilt my mitsu t-88 for 100 bux and it's running strong.

turbonetics bb are......
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:05 AM   #6
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BB are good by theory, but today's designs can't handle surge and shaft motion as well as journal bearings. Also most of the time you have to control spool-up after you launch for traction thru a boost controller anyway to prevent tire spin. If you are on a limited budget there are better places to spend you money.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:37 AM   #7
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In my experience Garret's BB turbos are a good bit more durable than other journal bearing turbos, referring to gt30-gt42ish sized turbos.

A while back we did some comparison's between BB and non-BB GT42's. On the Anti-Lag the BB unit got to it's boost target 1/10 of a second or so quicker. On gear changes the time it took from going 100% throttle to full boost was a wash.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer View Post
In my experience Garret's BB turbos are a good bit more durable than other journal bearing turbos, referring to gt30-gt42ish sized turbos.

A while back we did some comparison's between BB and non-BB GT42's. On the Anti-Lag the BB unit got to it's boost target 1/10 of a second or so quicker. On gear changes the time it took from going 100% throttle to full boost was a wash.

interesting, im looking at getting a gt4294.

how are garretts for rebuilding is bb.

ty
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:14 AM   #9
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I don't think they are rebuildable. Garret has some kind of exchange program for them though.

If you're looking into a BB 4294 give me a call. I have a used one off my car I want to get rid of.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojd331
BB are good by theory, but today's designs can't handle surge and shaft motion as well as journal bearings. Also most of the time you have to control spool-up after you launch for traction thru a boost controller anyway to prevent tire spin. If you are on a limited budget there are better places to spend you money.
+1

Not to mention the ball bearing designs used in turbochargers may be exceeding their RPM design limits in certain applications.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer View Post
In my experience Garret's BB turbos are a good bit more durable
ESPECIALLY in thrust wear.

Comp Turbo have their own bearing system and its completely re-buildable.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:52 PM   #12
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I would love to see a shaft Tq requiremtn test for a BB vs pressurized journal. I'd bet that the Journal actually outperforms the BB in many ways. I think the advantage in a BB is in initial moment of inertia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojd331 View Post
BB are good by theory, but today's designs can't handle surge and shaft motion as well as journal bearings. Also most of the time you have to control spool-up after you launch for traction thru a boost controller anyway to prevent tire spin. If you are on a limited budget there are better places to spend you money.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:19 AM   #13
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This thread is full of good information and also bad information.

Garrett doesn't have a warranty exchange program for turbochargers LOL. In fact Garrett's warranty is just about non-existent. Its always "user error" that the turbocharger fails and I have never seen them warranty a turbocharger, ever. You also HAVE to run the coolant lines if your looking to get a turbocharger replaced under warranty (through Garrett and their GTR series line)

Every single turbocharger I've ever seen has been a rebuildable unit unless its one of Garrett's DUAL BALL BEARING units (GTR SERIES). There are other manufactures that use Garrett CHRAs and put their name on them.(Rumors have it that there are reputable shops that are developing tooling to rebuild these GT series turbocharegers but I haven't heard anything yet)

Peak power should still be the same (BB vs. NON-BB) but you'll see more power sooner with the BB units.

BB units are also more durable then a journal bearing. Once you wipe the thrust out of the turbocharger, muah, kiss your turbocharger bye bye.

Usually a non-rebuidable turbocharger is because of the following: a) its a dualbb unit b) forgeign debris got into the oiling system causing scaring to the turbine shaft c) compressor wheel/turbine wheel made contact with turbine housing/compressor housing which can d) cause the turbine shaft to get bent as well. Now you might be able to rebuild the unit in certain circumstances but usually its cheaper just to buy a new one. Maybe thats why some get confused when they here "this isn't rebuidable"; I dont know.

Now with that being said, I would buy a ball bearing unit. Which brand though? I sell both Garrett and Turbonetics but like I've listed above, you can't rebuild a Garrett (GTR series) and they dont have a warranty.

Turbonetics will give you a 1 year hassle free warranty NO MATTER what happens to it INCLUDING user error. (That warranty even applies to their nonbb units as well fyi). Our Sponsored Comp car, Mark Wolfe, runs Turbonetics turbochargers and holds the world record in AA/AT.

When your ready to buy or would like help pricing a unit out, let me know and I'd be happy to help. I do carry Garrett as well.

Nick
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick James View Post
Garrett doesn't have a warranty exchange program for turbochargers LOL.
They do have an exchange program. And they have actually footed the bill for a 35r for me before.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...BBService.html

Turbonetics warranty is the best out there though, as long as you don't removed the oil fitting. Can't beat a no questions asked replacement, which is awesome as you'll probably need to use the warranty. I've never had good luck with there product but I do hear it is much better than just a couple years ago.
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer View Post
They do have an exchange program. And they have actually footed the bill for a 35r for me before.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...BBService.html

Turbonetics warranty is the best out there though, as long as you don't removed the oil fitting. Can't beat a no questions asked replacement, which is awesome as you'll probably need to use the warranty. I've never had good luck with there product but I do hear it is much better than just a couple years ago.
Wow.. This is new to me. I've never seen that link on their site before. Good to know.
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