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The diesel engine as a viable performance option

58K views 543 replies 78 participants last post by  Powerstroked162 
#1 · (Edited)
First I’m primarily a gas racer; I cut my racing teeth as a Competition Eliminatorcrew member, and racer. I get a woodie when I put my foot on the throttle of a 11,000 rpm small block.

I was stranded without a affordable and competitive engine program at the end 2001 season, after a fairly successfully 5 years of campaigning a D/ed with a Splayed valve V6. I stumbled in to the diesel performance world, and found it to be a new found passion.

The diesel engine development curve is where the gas world was 30 years ago. I speculated it would rapidly catch up, and it’s coming along, there are a lot of inovatators in the diesel couminity .
When I first started with diesels, mentioning cylinder head and cam development was laughed at. They stated that boost would overcome it all. 6 years later the shop that I begged to do my head, and build a sheet metal manifold has a 3 month waiting list to get a head and manifold.

So is the diesel engine as a viable power plant for a muscle car, bracket car, or even race car .
I don’t mean the typical smoke belching engine, but well refined engine programs. The diesel engine has made huge gains in this arena with the advent of electronic common rail high pressure with 20,000 to 30,000 psi fuel systems.
With the CR systems you can tune around destructive peak cylinder pressure as the engine goes thru peak torque. The solution to this before, on mechanical fuel systems was to reduce compression ratio, killing low eng cylinder pressure, and this worked on all out engines, but killed bottom throttle response. These lack of bottom end , also effected the AR selection on turbo’s

The advent of cylinder heads that in effect doubled air flow (Cummins stock 144 CFM ) ( Duramax stock 140 CFM ) to both heads flowing close to 250 CFM on streetable heads and 300+ CFM on all out race heads.

Cam design, which I made one of my pet projects, was way behind. The major player would grind BBF RV grinds on the Cummins 54.5 mm core, the events were to big , and with way to much overlap
Problems was the turbo diesel engine cores were on at best 102 to 106 LSA and the overlap was one of the greatest no no’s on a diesel . The diesel engine has little scavenge with 1.2 to 1.5 boost to turbine inlet pressure ratio’s . The tipical street cams would open the intake 10 ATDC and close at 2 or 3 ABDC . I use a cams that is 230 230 on a 116 in at 116 . and do it on 60 mm cores


So to the latest in Chevy Duramax engine for a street engine
First forget the huge injectors, twin pumps and compound turbo’s. A stock short block Duramax with a good cylinder head, and cams program will breath well, and make 600 hp and 1000 ft lbs of torque, and rev to 5000+ rpms and last forever. The great part about doing the heads and cam, on a entry level engine is, that now this good breathing engine will make a good power curve at low boost levels. The great part is no need for an intercooler at this boost level. Just use Water injection on the street.

This engine in a muscle car will run good, smoke free, and get 40+ MPG on # 2 diesel fuel. Go ahead and put a good set of rods in the motor and the hp level is close to 1100 hp with nitrous , which doubles as an intercooler.

Here are some pictures of the NX Mustang and My Dragster and their engine programs based around the Dmax diesel engine.

Oh and I love this forum, the knowledge level is humbling.













 
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#196 ·
Let's get this strait! I'm not deffending Greg! I think he need's to step back and do something, then he can talk about it. He has done things within the diesel world, just not lately. He needs to stop pimp'in parts for free but that's his gig. If some of you guy's don't think you look stupid then you need to step back and look. Some of you guy's need to bring you trucks to the events and run a class, even the bracket class and you might stand a better chance at talking down on a guy who does not. Unlike Greg, Im at most every diesel race there is so if anyone has a problem with my i'm not hard to find. Jeff
 
#199 ·
We ran with Pro Street at a NHRDA event in Ennis for some shake down passes and the won the Super Street class at TS this year.
Tim and I both would have loved to have the Ranger at more events it just wasn't in the cards. Tim attended more vents with that truck, seems like I had work in the way most times but I'm not rich and I do have bills to pay. Racing is secondary to a roof over my head and my kid having things she wants.
I'm glad you make so many diesel specific events. In years past I've had the time to do the same...this just wasn't one of those years.
 
#197 · (Edited)
Sting, no one has a problem with you.

What most of the general public has a problem with is two faced lairs, thief's (scammers) and otherwise generally dishonest folks. Greating a screen name like John Preston is well, as dishonest as it comes. That's what appears to be obvious with JP's latest comment.

Search, anywhere about what anyone thinks of a thief and lairs. It's not pretty what folks say.

edit:

If in fact Rich (and what I believe as well) is wrong. Please, prove us wrong. I will apologize with flowers and candy to GH and JP if in fact, JP is a real person.
 
#209 ·
This is more than a little humorous, to watch these guys squirm. The two nimrods in question are making an ineffective attempt to bring into disrepute my identity. This is straight from the principals of propaganda. You and your faction look like fools, and now you must argue that you accuser is not authentic.
Go back to the obscurity that crawled out from under.
 
#210 ·
This is more than a little humorous, to watch these guys squirm. The two nimrods in question are making an ineffective attempt to bring into disrepute my identity. This is straight from the principals of propaganda. You and your faction look like fools, and now you must argue that you accuser is not authentic.
Go back to the obscurity that crawled out from under.
fuktard.
 
#213 ·
JP must have gone to school with Greg. I've never seen this word used by one person this much.

John Preston at Yellowbullet said:
I totally understand what you are saying. My involvement in this thread was more about watching a mob attacking, that quite frankly making your fellow diesel enthusiast look like a bunch of back wood’s inbred Jed’s.

This jack wad UNBROKEN, was espousing many untrue statements about a fellow comp racer.
Greg might as you say grate on some peoples, nerves, but that in no way imparts the fact that Greg is a bonified racer. I have looked extensively at your Diesel specific site over the last few days. I can say that it looks like a lot of people support Greg, and it looks as well, that a lot of the diesel orientated business support him as well.
I goggled Greg’s name, and the results were a plethora of articles in several magazines, some not even diesel specific. I watched several videos on Hot Rod T V and speed channel as well. I found 8 pod cast of Greg doing a great job of championing the diesel performance movement on a national radio show MotorTrend Radio.
So you might want to rethink you participation in this mob action. It is fairly clear to we the people of the world outside, that the guy you are chasing is one of the most recognizable personalities of your sport.

You might want to remember this phrase , the toes you step on today , might be connected to the butt you may be kissing tomorrow. Greg is doing a really good job.

I found a video of the dragster you posted, its impressive the few times it gets down the track. In a real drag race , I would not put my money on it if it lines up against someone of Greg’s caliber .
...The statements that you and others keep espousing about Keating and Schieds making all their power on just good old number two is an absolute ludicrous . ...
Poking fun at us some times, but espousing the fact of what pioneers racers we must be, in that he believe that a diesel movement was on the horizon. He predicted that in the future, to expect a lot more diesel power entries
 
#216 ·
I hate to bump this thread back to the top, but...

I see both sides of the PR issues, as a driver of a truck with a decent sponsorship, and as one of the decision-makers at a company in the diesel industry, who decides where we spend our sponsorship money. As many in the drag racing community will preach, you need to promote yourself to potential sponsors. I suspect that was the primary purpose of Greg's original post. This whole thing went into a tailspin after that. I suspect some people were intentionally acting out to get Greg to react emotionally (which he definitely did). Neither one is good for our sport.

I've talked to Greg on the phone, and he seems to be a decent enough guy in that context. I have been drag racing for almost 28 years, and racing diesels for almost 6 years (and attempting to hot-rod diesels for about 20 years). I have been to a significant number of major diesel events in the past 5 years, and have met many of the people posting in this thread. However, I still have not met Greg in person.

Regarding John Preston's existence, I would like to point out that his writing style (aside from the use of the word "espousing") is noticeably different than Greg's, and he has better spelling and grammar. Greg only wishes he could spell and write as well ;)

Now back to the original topic of diesel race trucks, and shameless self-promotion:

 
#224 ·
Greg...everyone knows you are John Preston. Your story gets more ludicrous by the day.
I offered to you a shot at us burying out issues and ending this ridiculousness but every time t dies down you bring it back up with an even dumber story.
I give up...you're simply not worth my time anymore.
 
#227 ·
I understand your sentiment fully. Fortunately there is a full community of racers such as myself that do not partake in this bullshit. There really is some cool shit coming out of the diesel world right now, and I/we welcome any interest in our little world.

For the most part diesel racers are a really good bunch of guys that will give the shirts off of their back to help out a fellow racer. This is what got me all interested in racing again.
 
#230 ·
So to attempt to re-route this thread back on the rails...

The idea of building a diesel for my Super-Gas Vega is intriguing. Even before I was driving the MBRP/G&J Diesel truck I wanted to do this. There are several 1000+ HP daily drivers in the diesel world (although most probably turn them down when on the street), and it seems very realistic to build a 700 HP Duramax that could last for several years. I'm going to freshen up my BBC hopefully one more time, then put some time and money towards a diesel. I am driven by the thought of going several seasons without freshening, and running off of the same fuel I put in the tow rig (rather than $10 or more per gallon race gas). There are a few issues to address, namely the narrower RPM range (and the need for overdrive & lockup trans/converter packages). On the race truck we are now using a Bruno/Lenco with a lockup converter (yes, it's a custom-modified Bruno drive with a custom built converter, but it cost less than you might think). Even so, copying that may still be out of my budget so I'm looking for alternatives.

I have heard rumors of Powerglides and Turbo 400's with lockup converters, but nobody ever seems to have proof of their existence. Has anyone heard of such a thing? Another option may be a 4L80.
 
#260 ·
I see no issue with making 700HP and going several years between over hauls. The wiring and tune up is the biggest challenge.

4L80 works good but at your weight 1st gear would be worthless. It is for us. We leave off the brake in second. The hot ticket would be a lock up glide with 1.69 st gear IMHO. Lock up is being done. PM me I can get you more info.
 
#231 ·
Michael what gears are you running? And how tall are you slicks? Could you run a built 47 or 48 behind it. With under 1000 Hp it wouldnt take a major build for them to hold up, they have a decent OD and lots of options for TC's. A nice thing is that running a duramax you have a much bigger RPM range than what I am limited to with my cummins.
 
#237 ·
Yes Becky, you can. And properly done it should work very well too. What we lack in RPM we more than make up for with torque. It is relatively easy (in comparison to a small block chevy for comparison sake) to get 1000 HP out of a say cummins engine or duramax. The biggest drawback for us is a lack of RPM. For example on my truck I only have about 4000 rpm to work with, although there is some new technology that is becoming available to hopefully get me up to 5000 rpm. With a duramax 5000 is available now. If you can build a nice light car, keep the hp in the 1000 hp range it will be very reliable and fast too. And get good fuel mileage to boot,, LOL (like most people worry about that)
 
#240 · (Edited)
Cool another diesel guy that can talk in racing English.
I have a Cameron 4 link dragster with a Rehr Morrison 565. My mechanic says it makes 1100 horses. I apologies, I am not a expert on my car, I just write the checks, but I am learning. I run 8.90. I have run super Eliminator at 7.90 as well, and Top Dragster at 6.98 at 203 with something called spray.

tell me are all diesel people like these guys
 
#241 ·
Becky,
Just to clarify a bit further - the Scheid dragster (driven mostly by Bo Layne) runs in NHRA Top Dragster, and has run a few LODRS races and I believe they have run at least one National as well. The Power Service Funny Car (owned and driven by John Robinson) has been running NHRA Super-Comp, in both LODRS races and national events. John has managed to cut some 0.00x lights, but hasn't been as consistent on the index as is necessary in the class. I'm pretty sure a Duramax could be built to be pretty consistent, and we could make a simple version of a throttle stop to work with the electronic throttle pedal. We were considering taking the race truck to the Las Vegas national event this year (the truck is going down for the SEMA show anyway), but I managed to miss the entry window while waiting for my electronic entry affadavit to be processed (I hadn't run a national since NHRA went to the electronic entry forms). Incidentally, there is a diesel-specific clause for the NHRA Super-categories that allows Nitrous oxide to be used only with a diesel in those classes (it is something Gale Banks successfully lobbied for).
 
#245 ·
This picture is in the first post, It looks really well built, what kind of diesel is it, who built it, and who is the girl in the seat, is that the driver.
The car was Eddie Hill's old chassis, and it is running a Duramax. The girl is Anna Caulkins, who helps Greg out (and rumor has it she gets her hands dirty more than he does when it comes to actually wrenching on the car ;) ).
 
#246 ·
Nice car Becky! I love racing, I have been doing it since I was 16 years old. No this thread is not a accurate portrayal of the diesel comunity, (thank goodness)

This season coming up, my truck should be somewheres in the 1200hp range on fuel only and around 1400 - 1500 on spray. I hope to running in the high 9's with it.

Michael, have you guys looked at the DR P unit? I think for bracket racing it would be the shiznit
 
#248 ·
Kevin,
Are you talking about their staging device/controller? Funny coincidence, it was Anna who told me about that! I was going to dream up a custom unit for DirtyMax, and for my future diesel conversion. I actually have a home-built delay box that I used to run in Super-Gas!
 
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