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Drinking, Armed, and Driving

7K views 109 replies 23 participants last post by  O.C White 
#1 ·
Here is what happens when someone has had "plenty" to drink and they are armed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMk0bk4Omr0

***EDIT***

I knew something looked awfully strange about that so I fixed it to translate better.
 
#4 ·
Believe it or not LEO's can be charged in civil court for that. He did shoot to slide lock and some might consider that excessive. But then again they all had a magnum pointed in their face and the trigger pulled.
 
#6 ·
Yes sir you are correct but this time it serves a different purpose.
 
#7 ·
#10 ·
Think I read somewhere either it was a spent round or empty chamber.
 
#11 ·
I see nothing wrong with the cop returning fire, but he was not as prepared as he should have been. Most times I have been stopped or seen someone stopped or passed through roadblocks, the officers have had their gun hand free. The driver should not have been DUI, no one should, armed or not.
 
#14 ·
Just the concussion sound alone from that big magnum makes your liver quiver.
 
#16 ·
Wow. That's a good reminder of the chances law enforcement takes on a routine stop. Careful out there, Carl.

It's possible that it was a good thing the guy was drunk. If he was clear headed, that hammer might not have come down on an empty chamber. But, I guess it depends on the man and if he would have pulled the gun sober.

Either way, much too close for comfort.
 
#17 ·
That driver was definately wrong to fire at the cop (an example of why I would never drink and carry nor advocate it) and while I don't know what the law about returning fire is I would think that cop would fry in court for firing at fleeing vehicle when the vehicle is not continuing to fire while fleeing. Wouldn't that be like shooting somebody in the back that running away from you? I don't know about other states but in AL you can't shoot somebody in the back that is running away from you unless they are firing while running away. What if the cop hit an innocent passenger in the car? Regardless I'm glad the dumbass is dead. We don't need people like that in society with us and I'd rather that's the way they end up if they choose to do something like that as I don't want my tax dollars paying for that pos to sit in jail for yrs for attempted murder on a cop.
 
#18 ·
So Hoosier,

you would be happy with this guy just driving away without a care in the world with him taking a shot at a police officer. Am I understanding you correctly?

If that guy shoots at a police officer, what do you think he will do to the average citizen? And save me you will shoot him crap because it is obvious, very obvious he doesn't care about someone having a gun on them. I mean afterall he did pull the trigger twice so he knew what he was doing.

That is a violent felon, who just attempted capital murder on a public servant. The police officer should have reloaded and shot some more.
 
#23 ·
The guy who opened fire on the cop is still a threat to everyone untill he is apprehended or killed.... Say he drives off, comes up to a light. you are sitting in the car next to him and he decieds to open fire on you? the treat is still there because he is not in custody.
If there were other persons in the vehicle, he may or may not of opened fire... but, If he did, and the "innocent" passanger was hit and killed, the murder case would go to the guy who opened fire.
Just like if you happened to be driving a getaway car for a bank robber... you have no gun, you didnt go into the bank, but he went in and shot 10 people... you would fry just like him.
 
#24 ·
The guy who opened fire on the cop is still a threat to everyone untill he is apprehended or killed....
A threat yes but how many police chase vids have you seen where the cops shot somebody that was getting out of a car they were chasing but got stopped even though the driver was not pointing a gun at the cops and/or firing but had previously shot at police before or during the chase? I've never seen a single one. They always aprehend the person and take them to jail even if they have already killed a cop. Even if the perp has a gun in his hand, they wait until he makes a move to point it towards somebody. Generally cops do not fire at somebody unless a gun is pointed towards somebody or there is a threat to their life from some other weapon. This post does not mean I think the cop should not have killed the guy driving away.

Say he drives off, comes up to a light. you are sitting in the car next to him and he decieds to open fire on you?
That is always a posibility.

the treat is still there because he is not in custody.
True but it is not an immediate threat to somebody's life just because he has already fired at police until he is in the process of pointing that gun at another person. If left alone, chances are he wouldn't fire at anybody else other than another cop trying to stop him.

If there were other persons in the vehicle, he may or may not of opened fire... but, If he did, and the "innocent" passanger was hit and killed, the murder case would go to the guy who opened fire.
Being my sister works for a lawyer and being what she's told me about what happened in this type of civil court cases, if this cop would have hit someone in that vehicle that was not the one firing at the cop, the prosecution would have a field day with his ass in AL. Other states I cannot speak for.

Just like if you happened to be driving a getaway car for a bank robber... you have no gun, you didnt go into the bank, but he went in and shot 10 people... you would fry just like him.
Yes but not for murder of the 10 people just like a passenger in that vehicle would not be charged for shooting at the cop. You would be convicted for driving the getaway car and the shooter would get the murder charge. If there was someone else in the car with this drunk guy, the driver is pulled over for suspicion of DUI and starts firing at the cop. The cop kills the person there without the vehicle moving. The passenger will not get any charges to do with the driver firing at the cop because they were not the one with the gun in their hand and cannot control nor be responsible for the driver's actions.

Tell me if I'm on the right track OC.
 
#25 ·
Hoosier,

I am going to admit, I don't know what track you are on sometimes. This is the internet and without rise and inflection in a person's voice you just have to assume.

Now with that said, we had a Trooper about two years ago that shot and killed a guy on a traffic stop. The passenger in the vehicle jumped out and ran before the shooting started. Passenger was later caught.

According to the passenger, the driver said as soon as the Trooper's lights(red and blues)came on he told the passenger "either that Trooper is going to kill me or I am going to kill him, because I am not going back to jail" passenger said he tried to talk this guy out of taking a shot at the Trooper, but with a meth induced high, there was no talking. After the vehicle came to a stop, the passenger got out(I have seen the video, pretty damn intense) looked around and got back in for a second, then got back out and took off running. My classmate approaches the car and all of a sudden backs out of the camera view but you could hear him yelling "drop it!!!!!!!!" you hear what sounds like a single shot from a .22 pistol, and then you hear my classmate return fire with his .357 Sig in 226. Classmate gets on his handheld and yells "shots fired, drop it!!!!!" and you hear another volley of rounds go off from my classmate.

Aftermath dead bad guy has 12 shots in him in the upper torso, car was searched and a user amount of meth was found in the center console. Dead guy was wanted out of New Mexico for assault causing bodily injury, and a few other highlights.

The shooting took place in Channing, Texas in late 2008. I will see if I can find the link to it.

http://www.newschannel10.com/global/story.asp?s=9705532

http://www.connectamarillo.com/news/story.aspx?id=248152
 
#26 ·
Hoosier,

I am going to admit, I don't know what track you are on sometimes. This is the internet and without rise and inflection in a person's voice you just have to assume.

Now with that said, we had a Trooper about two years ago that shot and killed a guy on a traffic stop. The passenger in the vehicle jumped out and ran before the shooting started. Passenger was later caught.

According to the passenger, the driver said as soon as the Trooper's lights(red and blues)came on he told the passenger "either that Trooper is going to kill me or I am going to kill him, because I am not going back to jail" passenger said he tried to talk this guy out of taking a shot at the Trooper, but with a meth induced high, there was no talking. After the vehicle came to a stop, the passenger got out(I have seen the video, pretty damn intense) looked around and got back in for a second, then got back out and took off running. My classmate approaches the car and all of a sudden backs out of the camera view but you could hear him yelling "drop it!!!!!!!!" you hear what sounds like a single shot from a .22 pistol, and then you hear my classmate return fire with his .357 Sig in 226. Classmate gets on his handheld and yells "shots fired, drop it!!!!!" and you hear another volley of rounds go off from my classmate.

Aftermath dead bad guy has 12 shots in him in the upper torso, car was searched and a user amount of meth was found in the center console. Dead guy was wanted out of New Mexico for assault causing bodily injury, and a few other highlights.

The shooting took place in Channing, Texas in late 2008. I will see if I can find the link to it.

http://www.newschannel10.com/global/story.asp?s=9705532

http://www.connectamarillo.com/news/story.aspx?id=248152

Your classmate has excellent accuracy. Good for him.
 
#27 ·
[



True but it is not an immediate threat to somebody's life just because he has already fired at police until he is in the process of pointing that gun at another person. If left alone, chances are he wouldn't fire at anybody else other than another cop trying to stop him.

BULLSHIT!!!!


Being my sister works for a lawyer and being what she's told me about what happened in this type of civil court cases, if this cop would have hit someone in that vehicle that was not the one firing at the cop, the prosecution would have a field day with his ass in AL. Other states I cannot speak for.

In Fla,NewYork, the pass would be charged with whatever the driver is/would be charged with



Yes but not for murder of the 10 people just like a passenger in that vehicle would not be charged for shooting at the cop. You would be convicted for driving the getaway car and the shooter would get the murder charge. If there was someone else in the car with this drunk guy, the driver is pulled over for suspicion of DUI and starts firing at the cop. The cop kills the person there without the vehicle moving. The passenger will not get any charges to do with the driver firing at the cop because they were not the one with the gun in their hand and cannot control nor be responsible for the driver's actions.


In Fla/ NY the pass would be charged with Attempted Murder of a LEO.
We have a case going on right now where some high school kids (4) broke into a guys house , homeowner shot one in the head as he is climbing through a window, second shot got a 16 year old in the stomach.
ALL 4 are going to be charged as an Accessory to Murder
Head shot=DEAD
Stomach shot = survived and charged as an Adult
2-outside= charged as Adults
 
#32 ·
BULLSHIT!!!!
Difference of opinion if you want to call it that but it seems I have what happens in police vids on my side. Have you ever seen a vid where a cop is dealing with a guy with a gun but doesn't fire if the guy never points the gun at anybody. I haven't. You know why? Because until the guy is in the process of raising the gun to point it at somebody he is not an immediate (maybe I should say emminent) threat. At the point he starts raising the gun to point it at an officer, for example, he is now an immediate/emminent threat where shooting to protect one's life would be justified. Tell you what, you try shooting somebody that has a gun but is not pointing it at you, while being filmed, and let us know how that works out for you in court.

In Fla,NewYork, the pass would be charged with whatever the driver is/would be charged with
I will not speak for other state's laws but I find it awful hard to believe an innocent passenger would be charged with attempted murder of cop if the driver went crazy and started shooting at cops. If you're talking about a bank robbery situation with the driver being charged as well as the person that went inside then yes I know they will be charged but it will not be the same exact charge the shooter gets if the robber goes in and kills people in the bank. The driver would be an accessory/accomplice to murder but not be charged with the murder of the people in the bank as he was not the one with the gun nor the one that pulled the trigger.

In Fla/ NY the pass would be charged with Attempted Murder of a LEO.
We have a case going on right now where some high school kids (4) broke into a guys house , homeowner shot one in the head as he is climbing through a window, second shot got a 16 year old in the stomach.
ALL 4 are going to be charged as an Accessory to Murder
Head shot=DEAD
Stomach shot = survived and charged as an Adult
2-outside= charged as Adults
Kind of not the same thing but I think you've got something backwards here. The quote above says 4 people broke into a guy's house and the homeowner shot two of them but the 4 people that broke into to the house will be charged as an accessory to murder while you state the homeowner was the one committing the "murder". Don't you have that backwards and the charges wrong? Based on the info you gave the people that broke into the house didn't murder or attempt to murder anybody. The people that broke into the house should be charged with something like breaking and entering/unlawful entry/armed robbery etc and yes the people outside would be charged with being an accessory/accomplice because what other reason would they be there if not involved with what was going on.
 
#29 ·
The police officer should have reloaded and shot some more.
Damn straight!
 
#30 ·
True but it is not an immediate threat to somebody's life just because he has already fired at police until he is in the process of pointing that gun at another person. If left alone, chances are he wouldn't fire at anybody else other than another cop trying to stop him.
A drunk driver that just tried to blow a cops head off is not an immediate threat fleeing the scene? Really? That's what you really think? Or are you just trying to show how much you know about the law because your sister works for a lawyer? Seriously?
 
#34 ·
A drunk driver that just tried to blow a cops head off is not an immediate threat fleeing the scene? Really? That's what you really think?
That's what I know. If you are known to have just committed a gun crime like shooting a cop and are now facing the cops holding your gun but it pointing at the ground you are a threat but not an emminent threat meaning you are not attempting to fire at somebody else at that moment. Do you not see the difference? As I said before, I've never seen any vid where the cops shot somebody just because they were standing there with a gun even if they had already killed a cop. There is a reason for this. I think they should allowed to hunt this person down and kill them for killing the cop even if this person is trying to give themselves up but the sad fact is just because this person killed a cop, or anybody else, does not give the cops a permit to hunt this person down and kill them no matter what.

Or are you just trying to show how much you know about the law because your sister works for a lawyer? Seriously?
I know more about what happens in the courtroom in AL than the average person does because I happen to have a sister that is in the courtroom on a regular basis with the lawyer she works for and I talk to her regularly about what happens in court with different various cases. The average person doesn't know somebody like that. I will never sit here and say I know all the lawyer does. Of course I don't but most people don't have access to somebody to talk on a daily basis that is in the courtroom as much as she is.
 
#35 ·
He wasn't just standing there, he was speeding away in a vehicle drunk. See the difference?
 
#36 ·
Sure do. The fact that somebody is speeding away drunk does not give anybody the right to fire at that vehicle unless somebody in the vehicle is firing. In the vid OC posted nobody in that vehicle was firing while it was fleeing. That is a HUGE difference. Cops do not fire at a vehicle because the driver is drunk. They will PIT them to force the stop but not if someone in the vehicle is known to have a gun. If they know that they will generally stay back and try to stop the vehicle with spikes.
 
#41 ·
In the video, and in the post about my classmate both bad guys died. Both cops went before the Grand Jury also and were found justified in their use of force.
 
#40 ·
This is what I prefer too but would be afraid of what might happen in court if I tried to do that in all cases. Damn I sound people are trying to kill me every time I turn around.
 
#43 ·
In N.C. if a person is fleeing from comission of a felony by use of a firearm, it is a justified use of deadly force all day long.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Anytime somebody's pointing a gun at you it's justified use of deadly force but that doesn't give the cops a permit to hunt somebody down and kill them by shooting them in the back when they are trying to run away even if they've already killed a cop. I ain't buying that until you post a link of the law that says so. While I do think they should be able to do so I won't believe it's legal until I see it. Even if NC law says this is allowed there may be fed problems with doing so.
 
#47 · (Edited)
Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. * Thus, if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where [p. 12] feasible, some warning has been given. * As applied in such circumstances, the Tennessee statute would pass constitutional muster.

Tenn. vs. Garner
 
#49 ·
Well I'll be damned look at who thinks it is justified to shoot a felon or fleeing suspect in the back:

was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, he or she may use deadly force only to prevent escape if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.
Seems as if the Feds don't have a problem with it. Just Alabama.
 
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