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brodix gb 2500 heads or sb2.2 heads

19K views 45 replies 16 participants last post by  kba1987 
#1 ·
I have a delima I would like to know what heads you guys think would be best for my application. My motor is 428 inches max effort n/a deal going to be running the ram racing stuff and some local stuff,I dont know what head I should go with I have a dart iron eagle block that has a std lifter bore pattern in it I know you can use this on a sb2.2 head but I am worried about valvetrain issues with it turning 9500 rpms. Should I go ahead with the sb2.2 or should I stick with a more convential set up like the gb 2000s,I am trying to make 1000 hp can it be done with gb 2000s. One more thing to consider is thier will be a added weight for the sb2.2 heads over the gb 2000s just need some input on what you guys think.
 
#2 ·
Well I'm partial to SB2's, I put together a 447 last year and building a 461 currently. Now you did not say 1 or 2 carbs. For a single carb, It's hard to beat the SB2's and for 2 carbs I might lean toward the SBX castings. My suggestion would be to put a call into Curtis at RFD, to get 1000 hp will not be easy and you want to make sure you make the right choice in castings.
 
#3 ·
This is a tough question, .. the SB2.2 is one of my favorite heads,
and I can make power with them, .. one or two carbs, .. but if there's
a weight break for using an in-line valve head, .. I'd look at
a drag race version of the GB2300
http://raceflowdevelopment.com/RFD-heads-13-brodixGB2000.htm

With a sheetmetal and two carbs, .. on a well built engine
if you don't hit 1000 you'll be close. BUT keep in mind, we are talking
an all out style build.

I am yet to hear of an issue with the sb2.2 on a standard lifter
bore block, ..

Curtis
 
#4 ·
I have a delima I would like to know what heads you guys think would be best for my application. My motor is 428 inches max effort n/a deal going to be running the ram racing stuff and some local stuff,I dont know what head I should go with I have a dart iron eagle block that has a std lifter bore pattern in it I know you can use this on a sb2.2 head but I am worried about valvetrain issues with it turning 9500 rpms. Should I go ahead with the sb2.2 or should I stick with a more convential set up like the gb 2000s,I am trying to make 1000 hp can it be done with gb 2000s. One more thing to consider is thier will be a added weight for the sb2.2 heads over the gb 2000s just need some input on what you guys think.
my engine builder has made 1004 and 1002 horsepower with gb2000 heads done by darin at reher morrison when he was there and with sb2 heads but i dont know who done those. but keep in mind there was no exspense spared. both motors were over 460 inches with sheet metal intake and two dominators. Also there is alot of maintance on a engine like that. I also seen him build a 414 inch sbc with little chief heads done by MBE and it made 1014 horsepower with not as big of a cam to keep maintance easier. But that motor cost more than the other motors. I guess it boils down to how deep are your pockets and finding the right builder to spend the money with.;)
 
#6 ·
my engine builder has made 1004 and 1002 horsepower with gb2000 heads done by darin at reher morrison when he was there and with sb2 heads but i dont know who done those. but keep in mind there was no exspense spared. both motors were over 460 inches with sheet metal intake and two dominators. Also there is alot of maintance on a engine like that. I also seen him build a 414 inch sbc with little chief heads done by MBE and it made 1014 horsepower with not as big of a cam to keep maintance easier. But that motor cost more than the other motors. I guess it boils down to how deep are your pockets and finding the right builder to spend the money with.;)
So who is your engine builder?
 
#8 ·
I have a delima I would like to know what heads you guys think would be best for my application. My motor is 428 inches max effort n/a deal going to be running the ram racing stuff and some local stuff,I dont know what head I should go with I have a dart iron eagle block that has a std lifter bore pattern in it I know you can use this on a sb2.2 head but I am worried about valvetrain issues with it turning 9500 rpms. Should I go ahead with the sb2.2 or should I stick with a more convential set up like the gb 2000s,I am trying to make 1000 hp can it be done with gb 2000s. One more thing to consider is thier will be a added weight for the sb2.2 heads over the gb 2000s just need some input on what you guys think.
Are they the only two heads you want to or can consider?
 
#9 ·
I belive I am going to go with the new dart 9 degree wedge head I have been hearing big things about this head this thing is big as big as a sb2.2 head, ports are moved way up and I belive you can put a 2.250 valve in it with a 1.600 exh valve.
 
#10 ·
What has made you go with this head? Has it actually performed in an application like you are wanting to build?

I would be speaking to shops that have built what you want. See if they will give you any info on what you want to do.

Did Chris U build a small block a few years ago similar to what you want to build? Anybody know?
 
#16 ·
I have a delima I would like to know what heads you guys think would be best for my application. My motor is 428 inches max effort n/a deal going to be running the ram racing stuff and some local stuff,I dont know what head I should go with I have a dart iron eagle block that has a std lifter bore pattern in it I know you can use this on a sb2.2 head but I am worried about valvetrain issues with it turning 9500 rpms. Should I go ahead with the sb2.2 or should I stick with a more convential set up like the gb 2000s,I am trying to make 1000 hp can it be done with gb 2000s. One more thing to consider is thier will be a added weight for the sb2.2 heads over the gb 2000s just need some input on what you guys think.
SB2.2's they make more power, at 428 CID they should make minimum 2.3 HP per cube if done right, MBE would be a great choice Matt can hook you up. http://www.mbellc.com/drag_sb22.html
 
#17 ·
Like I said before I am going with the dart 9 degree head I know the sb2.2 head makes big power but if you can get the same cross sectional area,same flow,intake cc and valve size why wouldn't this head make as much power as the sb2.2 it also has a shallower valve angle than the sb2.2.
 
#22 ·
John I have the bare castings on order they wont be out for about 6 weeks,I called jesel and they dont have a rocker set up for it but t&d does jesel told me it should not cost any more than your typical 18 or 15 degree set up since it is going to be a massed produced head and not a one off custom.
 
#30 ·
I'd be curious as to why they chose 9 degree for the valve angle. Small CID stuff?

I'm also curious to see how the head likes rpm given the chamber and valve angle.
Chris just curious to why you would think this head is made for small cid motors? What does the chamber and valve angle have to do with rpm didn't you run some 10 degree cfe heads on Butches car and twist the $hit out of it?:confused:
 
#34 ·
Curtis,

Regarding Chris' comment on shallow valve angle heads that make excellent power but tend to peak early, what do you think is the cause for this vs. a steeper valve angle that will make about the same power at higher engine speeds?

In my own thoughts I can see where there is some potential for the shallow angle head to stop running upstairs when the port centerline is in about the same place with, say, the 10° head vs. a 13° or 15° head.

Do you think chamber volume/area is a contributor in this case, or are there other considerations?
 
#37 ·
I think there's more to it then just the basic valve angle.

Yes one thing is the basic port centerline, .. two heads with the same
port, the same distance up from the deck but just a shallower
valve angle, I think they tend to run the same.

It also has a bunch to do with the port and VJ design and where the choke
points are. You can control the hp curve and peak with not just
port cross sectional area but also the relationship between area in different parts of the head.

Curtis
 
#38 ·
The only problem that we have found in the shallower valve angle stuff is that after making peak power they have a tendency to drop off dramaticly. Whereas the 12-15 degree stuff carries on a little further. Regardless of what peak power was....the continued average over was alot better in a less shallower motor. Maybe on the larger motor the shallower angle may work better not having to twist it more than is needed.

With flow numbers like that I would also be concerned that the chances for reversion have just increased, again on the larger motor not as big a problem, but I would make sure that those heads have a better than normal forward/reverse flow ratio than the rest.

just my .02
Rich Maitre
RAM Racing Heads
www.ramracing.us
 
#39 ·
The only problem that we have found in the shallower valve angle stuff is that after making peak power they have a tendency to drop off dramaticly. Whereas the 12-15 degree stuff carries on a little further. Regardless of what peak power was....the continued average over was alot better in a less shallower motor. Maybe on the larger motor the shallower angle may work better not having to twist it more than is needed.

With flow numbers like that I would also be concerned that the chances for reversion have just increased, again on the larger motor not as big a problem, but I would make sure that those heads have a better than normal forward/reverse flow ratio than the rest.

just my .02
Rich Maitre
RAM Racing Heads
www.ramracing.us
So my take from reading you, Curtis and Chris is to run GB's or step up to SB2.2's and do not mess with these 9 degree heads.
 
#40 ·
I have not found what Rich posted to be true on a shallow
angle head with the proper cross section and shape of the port, ..
they run the same upstairs. Maybe Rich has seen the Weldtech stuff that's too
small. BUT, .. also read my last paragraph as it relates to this.
Chamber shape does play an important role.

Anyway, ..for big inch motors yes, .. I'd stick to 13* stuff or something you
can get a big enough chamber in.
Chamber size becomes an issue when you're dealing with 440" or bigger engines.

You either have to shorten the rod to make room for the
reverse dome in the piston, or put more chamber volume in it.
It of course depends on what compression ratio you're trying to run.

I think Chamber shape and pressure recovery DO start to play an important role
in how the heads run at high rpm. It's important to have some form of
a chamber to help with pressure recovery and it's proved
with the SB2.2. You can lay the chamber down too much, make
a bigger flow number but hurt power.

Curtis
 
#42 ·
Are you talking about my build, If so things are coming together I went with the GB 2400s with a 95/150 valve spacing. I been working on the heads to get some push rod holes in them they came bare with no push rod holes and spent $450 for some mock up rockers to see what kind of port we can get in there, Got it clearanced for 1/2 to 7/16 push rods so I am ready for the port to be cut so it can be scaned and cnced. Took the bore out to 4.200 ordered pistons and am waiting on the head to get done before I get the 63mm cam. If I had to do over I would go with the DR1213 head because this GB2400 head is a bitch but its going to be a badass head when its done.
 
#46 ·
Things are at a simmer right now I got laid off work and have been laid off for a 1/1/2 years and cant find a job so I have invested every thing I have into starting my own business but I have a new cam going in the works shortley $2000 for a cam:smt089 but their badass.
 
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