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There goes another one!!!!

8K views 125 replies 32 participants last post by  nooner 
#1 ·
As reported this morning on the radio, Windsor has lost another major employer. Nemak's (Ford) Essex Aluminum Plant has been given their 1 year notice for closure putting roughly 550 people out of jobs in spring of 09. Same story as others, strong loonie...border issues...cost of raw materials...ect. I am starting to hear the crickets now!!!!!!! Anyone wanna move out west???
 
#31 ·
CAW WAGES

I myself work for the CAW but not for the big 3. I am currently laid off and know what it's like 1st hand. This is my 1st job with a union backing us up, and feel that the union always wants more than it should ask for. Yes I know owners want to produce for less costs but there comes a time when the workers and unions should get with the times. This isn't back like 10 / 20 years ago when everything was booming and there were no worries for manufacturing in North America.:party OUTLAW RACING

{DRIVE BY'S MAKE ME THE KING}
 
#33 ·
first off couldn,t care less if our pay was lowered a bit hell 12 bucks an hour goes straight to the government.
but i hope everyone else in canada is ready to pay extra because our government is not taking a pay cut.
and the auto sector is looking for the costs to come down for everything that includes tooling and materials.
so it,s going to be everyone that has been on the gravy train taking the loss.
anyone follow the problem with plastec there costs are getting to high
chrysler is going to pull out there tooling and get someone else to build for them.
cheaper.
molds have been getting built in china because they are cheaper are you asking the mold industry to lower there wages.
as for the stickers i don`t have one.
 
#34 ·
Actually I was one of the "lucky 1000" that got hired for the third shift. Start date Nov. 30th. I did it for four months and packed it in. Couldn't deal with the union mentality and I needed to be doing something that made me think

i am taking it they couldn,t pay you enough to stay
but it east work just have to tighten bolts
 
#35 ·
It was easy work if you could figure out how to turn your brain off and had 20 years in. My job was very physical and my shoulders were burning at the end of a shift.I couldn't turn my brain off. To me the money wasn't a reason to stay. I'll take less pay (and I do) to enjoy what I do for a living. Here in Windsor we're basically all in this together, whether your automotive related or not. Hell, my wife is a supply teacher and normally she would have to wait 2-3 years before getting a full time position. Now with people flocking out of Windsor, enrollment drops, and teachers that have a full time position are being put back on the supply list, pushing my wife further away from her own classroom. Again, I have no problem with pay/benefits you guys may have negotiated for. I just have a problem with the union mentality telling me how to spend my money when most them are the first ones to shop in Detroit. Do as I say, not as I do!
 
#36 ·
i am still getting they couldn,t pay you enough to stay
and by the way as a floater with four months you were doing a job that would take at least 10 years in the plant to get.
as for our wages
it is less then 5% of the cost of a vehicle so lets do some math
a truck at 40,000
5 % of that is 2,000
if we started building them for free and they actually passed the savings on to the customer lol
the truck would still cost 38,000
do you think that alone is going to turn the industry around
 
#42 ·
Does this make any sense to anyone? IF the labour cost for a new vehicle was only 5% of the selling price they wouldn't be sending the jobs to China to save on labour, how much do you think it cost to ship (people/tools/parts) back and forth from here to China? more than what they would be saving on Labour according to you? doesn't sound right. And someone said that 40% of the the selling cost was advertising? that sounds stupid too, hell if that was true they could just stop advertising and drop the selling price by 40% and sell many more vehicles than. :confused:
 
#38 ·
Just to set the record straight again.......I have no problem with the gains you people have negotiated. It may only be 5% of the ost of a vehicle but the dollar has made us uncompetitive as a nation.
 
#43 ·
5% is about right Keith...when i was working in Engine plant 1 making 351's we started at 7:00 am and they said anything we made after 8:00 am was pure profit...so in one hour we had the production workers,the skilled trade,the light's and the heat all paid for...i have seen pie charts from the company that have the hourly labour,heating,electrical at 7% of vehicle cost and that's the company saying that...now over in china it's probably less then 1 %
 
#46 ·
It still doesn't make any sense, if that is really the number ( and I have NO idea one way or the other) the cost of shipping would surely offset it don't you think? and even if they did save some even 100% of there labour cost gone, according to the above thats only $2000 per vehicle, not alot comparied to the $30,000 to $75,000 in a vehicle price but yet a huge deal in the North American ecomony, China WON'T BUY our vehicles so in the big picture does it make any sense to reduce the income of the people that DO BUY them to the point that they can't afford them? None of this makes any sense to me I'm a straight forward 2+2=4 type of guy, am I the only one that this stuff doesn't make any sense to or am I missing something? :confused:
 
#49 ·
It still doesn't make any sense, if that is really the number ( and I have NO idea one way or the other) the cost of shipping would surely offset it don't you think? and even if they did save some even 100% of there labour cost gone, according to the above thats only $2000 per vehicle, not alot comparied to the $30,000 to $75,000 in a vehicle price but yet a huge deal in the North American ecomony, China WON'T BUY our vehicles so in the big picture does it make any sense to reduce the income of the people that DO BUY them to the point that they can't afford them? None of this makes any sense to me I'm a straight forward 2+2=4 type of guy, am I the only one that this stuff doesn't make any sense to or am I missing something? :confused:
You got me Keith...i can't figure it out myself (but im just a dumb autoworker)
All our crankshafts now come from Brazil(at least the raw casting's) when i seen a internal sheet with a cost breakdown we were paying $40 for a finished crank when buying from our own crank dept (cast at Windsor casting and machined at Engine plant 1,2 and Essex. Good deal if you ask me
 
#47 ·
yep there another topic all by itself there
who`s going to afford to buy them.
as for why it`s so cheap ( beside labour cost ) to build them over there i have no idea

but then again how is india building there 2500 dollar car
heck can`t buy a good 4 wheeler for that price
i mean still uses steel a motor seats etc etc tooling molds hydro gas
 
#50 ·
I know in our particular trade (Robotic welding systems, transfer lines, automation) the cost of copper in particular has doubled the cost of our weld guns. There is a company out of China that has copied our weld gun (an industry standard for the last 40 years) and sell in for $1200.00 less than our gun. Its a POS as far as quality but everyone is strictly looking at cost anymore. Quality or warranty service don't mean shit anymore. We need to start building our own $2500.00 POS gun.
 
#52 ·
rob wade

rob i resent your statment about the people at lear you have no idea what you are talking about or what these people have been going through for the past 20 plus years and what we have given up over the years maybe you should talk to pat lauzon to get your facts right before you spew your verbal diarrea john marcoux
 
#53 ·
rob i resent your statment about the people at lear you have no idea what you are talking about or what these people have been going through for the past 20 plus years and what we have given up over the years maybe you should talk to pat lauzon to get your facts right before you spew your verbal diarrea john marcoux
Actually John my info does come from numerous Lear employees whom I won't name but it doesn't get much higher then them. What have you given up? Seriously. Tell me something besides the new hire deal on your last contract and compacting the skilled trades. Your wages weren't going to change unless you got new work in the plant.....which you never did. What has a Lear employee given up since GM sold you? You still make big three wages as a parts supplier. You still have people drinking like fishes and then having to go home because they "injured" themselves at lunch and you still have people off on comp that are being paid to become a teacher ( my wife didn't get paid to become a teacher) who will also be paid their big 3 wage if they can't find a teaching job and IF they find a teaching job but it doesn't pay what they made at Lear, it will get topped up so that it does equal what they earned at Lear.................best part about that is now they want to come off of comp so that they can get their big money payout. So tell me....................what have you given up since GM sold the trim plant? Or should I tell you some more of my "facts". Trust me John, you don't want me to go on about the Lear plant. Am I sad to see any plant close? Absolutely, but the attitudes that I heard in your Sunday morning union meetings just tell me you people surely don't read the newspapers or notice whats going on in the world around you. You are the highest paid LEAR plant in the world by $17.00 and hour! If YOU owned that plant, you would have shut the doors along time ago without wage reductions. So what have you given up?
 
#55 ·
As a former G.M. mechanic, I can feel for those in diar straits that are lossing their jobs....but your "hourly" wages are just a small part of the puzzle...maybe a little over priced but not totally ridiculous I might say, heck we pay $20.00 hr. for guys just to climb trees and $30.00 hr just to drive a pick-up to plow snow, a CDL driver gets $25.00 hr just to drive........but as a bussiness owner, I can see the BIG 3's point on certain stuff like those ENORMOUS retirement pensions that were negotiated, with health insurance now those are totally out of line, a friend of ours up there got something like 75% of his salary just to be laid off..... and he maks like $65,000 a year.....now what is that?
 
#56 ·
CAW =GREED

I can't agree more with the last 2 quotes. I also work for the CAW which stands for Canada Against Work. I am surronded by intimidation, negativty and backstabbing to name a few qualities which surround me. Basically it is CAW GREED which is why we are in this mess. PLAIN & SIMPLE! GREED!!!!


I'm not trying to start anything, just stating my opinion.

:(
 
#57 ·
You don't work for the CAW, you belong to the CAW and the fact that you can't destinguish between the two tells me you prolly haven't belonged long enough to understand the benefits of belonging to the coutry's largest union. Guys like you that put all the problems of the world on the unions shoulders make me laugh...................you haven't got a clue do you??? Sure the union isn't perfect and makes some bad decisions from time to time but the good they do both for the memebers and the communities they are located in far outway the negetives. How about we let the problems of the big three be the concern of the big three. General public keeps saying fuck the auto industry but in the next breathe wants to make it their business. Support us or mind you own business!!!!!!!!!! I really don't care which but YOU don't get the privledge of having it both ways!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#59 ·
Then don't preach to me about what to buy.....................If you read anything I posted I don't have an issue with anything you negotiated. I have a problem with you and your union brothers preaching to me about whom I need to support. Are you going to tell me that the people working at the honda or toyota plants don't spend their wages in the communities they live in? Now you'll tell me that the profits go offshore. So when is the last time the BIG 3 invested any money in this town? Where are the profits going then? Not here! I do not have an issue with you people fighting for your jobs ........you'd be a retard if you didn't. Just don't tell me where I need to spend my money.
 
#58 ·
CAW

Like I stated earlier in a previous posting, I am new to the union environment. No I don't know as much as members with many more years behind there belts. I have to say I am thankful to be a member but there comes a time when giving back is the only option. If we gave back wages I would probably be working as we speak. Instead I'm on layoff and wondering if our plant will jump ship and produce elsewhere.:smt102:smt102



OUTLAW RACING ----DOING IT ONE DRIVE BY AT A TIME!!!!!
 
#61 ·
See Rob, thats part of the problem right there. The BUY DOMESTIC campaign was a mistake. We as a union should never tell individual people anything...................PERIOD!!!! I have never and will never tell anyone how to spend their hard earned money!!! You wanna buy a Toyota or Honda, thats fine. I am sure you would have your reasons for doing so. But do not paint all union members with the same brush. I only want to go to work everyday and make a good living. With any luck I will keep coming home with all the fingers and toes I went to work with and people will continue to buy what we build. I am going to let these million dollar corporate assholes worry about market share and consumer opinion. I will worry about making quality parts and feeding my family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#64 ·
That we do.......that we do. Unfortunately alot of our problems are created by poor upper management......I'm sure you can relate! 8)
 
#67 ·
i HAVE A BUNCH OF COMMENTS, First of all they say that wages account for only 5% of a vehicle price, well that doesnt sound like much untill you figure how many ford , GM, and Dodge pick ups are sold a year, then throw in mini vans, cars, cross overs ect, 5% sounds like a hell of alot now! Second of all, I worked for a temp agency in EAP during shut down, for $43 an hour, and can say the work load is ridiculous, I DID NOTHING!! sure it was hot in there but thats it, Plus we were told by Ford foremans that the only reason the temps were in there was to get the work done, if it was left to Ford skilled trades it would never get done, but i had no problem cashing that check, if the pay me 43 an hour, what was fords paying the temp company? And third, I work for a Mold shop, and we were completely and totally against the whole China thing, We built higher quality, faster built molds, Now the company has to start having a certain percentage of the mold package built over seas, this isnt the company's choice, its the suppliers, or we didnt get the package, So the Tier 1 people are putting it your asses too! And as far as those stupid stickers "Out of a job yet, keep buying foreign" that has to be the stupidest things ever, I'd like to see how many things in their houses arent built here, snowmobiles, 4 wheelers, tv's, couches, Tools ect!
 
#73 ·
And as far as those stupid stickers "Out of a job yet, keep buying foreign" that has to be the stupidest things ever, I'd like to see how many things in their houses arent built here, snowmobiles, 4 wheelers, tv's, couches, Tools ect!
Jim your absalutley right. This problem isn't just with the auto sector, it's with probably every product that we use every day.

Yes our Government needs to grow some gonads and stand up for our best interest. Some one is lining their pockets. The wages of the plant workers and skilled trade are not the problem. It is alot deeper than that. It's all "politics".

Also, no matter what people say, with the shut down of all these plants, it will impact everything in our economy like a rippled effect. I see it happening already with Greenshield. In my line of work, we need to get approval for the pruchase of product. They are starting to say "no" to pay for items that they would have said yes to 2 years ago.
 
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