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Old 03-29-2012, 02:09 PM   #256
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Default Re: ***Daily Devotional- JESUS died so that YOU and I can be reconciled.***

Read from the first book in the Christian gospels, the book of Matthew, until chapters six and seven; because in these chapters it is clear that Jesus is a servant, and God is the Master and Lord, based upon his statement (in the book of Matthew chapter 4) verse 7, 'It is also written, that you shall not tempt the Lord your God.'

In this same chapter Satan carried the Messiah (Jesus), and began transporting him from place to place, so how could Satan be able to carry the most Merciful (meaning: Allah, God), verily God is far above such a thought! (Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple (Matthew Chapter 4 verse 5)

Then Satan ordered him to prostrate to him and to worship him and he enticed him with worldly wealth. (Matthew chapter 4 verses 8 and 9) So, how could Satan dare to approach God with such intrepidity and brazenness? And when Satan attempted to do this the Messiah responded by saying, 'It is written, worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' (Matthew chapter 4 verse 10) Look at these ten verses, Jesus does not call himself the son of God as far as I know; rather he only called himself the son of man. After close inspection, one will clearly see that he (Jesus) only heard them call him the son of God and he did not criticize it according to the bible, and he was not singled out with this title (i.e. son of God).

In the language of the Old Testament and the New Testament, every pious God fearing person was called the son of God! In the ninth verse of the fifth chapter of Matthew it reads; 'Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.' And it reads in the same chapter in verse 45, 'that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.'

In verse 48 it reads; 'Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.' And in the sixth chapter of Matthew, verse 1, it reads; 'If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.'

In the seventh chapter of Matthew, verse 21, the word 'Master' is interpreted using the word 'Lord', so this leaves some ambiguity that perhaps the Messiah is God. But, for the one who reflects on the remaining verses, he will find that this verse testifies that the Messiah is a servant of God. Therefore, the correct interpretation is; 'Not everyone who says to me, 'Master', will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.'

It has been previously mentioned that referring to God as the Father appears in numerous places in the New Testament and the Messiah is not singled out as being the only son. It reads in the book of Matthew chapter 11 verse 25; 'At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.'

In the book of Matthew, chapter 14 verse 23, it reads; 'After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray'

I say; if he was God, or part of God, then why did he pray? Prayer is not performed by anyone except a needy servant seeking the mercy of God.

In the book of Matthew, chapter 15 verses 21 through 27, in the story of the Canaanite woman, there are a number of notable issues.
'Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite Woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon possessed and suffering terribly." Jesus did not answer a word. So His disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, Help me! She said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table."

Firstly: This story negates mercy and love from Jesus.

Secondly: This indicates hatred and intolerance because he would treat the children of his people and he would not treat the children of others despite the fact that he would not lose anything by doing so.

Thirdly: This indicates national pride and boasting about the lineage and derogation of others and he considered them to be dogs.

Fourthly: An ignorant pagan woman debated with him and defeated him.

In the book of Matthew, chapter 19 verses 16 and 17, it states; 'Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life? Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good, that is God.' In this is an acknowledgement that he is only a servant.

In the book of Matthew, chapter 21 verses 45 and 46, it reads; 'When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them. They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.'

This is proof that the consensus of the believers during the time of Jesus, did not believe that he was a God, the son of God, or part of a trinity! Rather, they believed that he was merely a prophet! And, this is from the strongest proofs against those who claim divinity for Jesus! If only you people would really take the time to ponder and reflect!

In the book of Matthew, Chapter 23 verse 8, 'But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.' So, in this proof that the Messiah is a servant and the Master is one and he is God!

Also in verse 9, it reads; 'And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.' This shows that the terms 'father' and 'son' have the meaning of 'Lord' and 'Slave' respectively and this refers to all the people in the New Testament, and it is not specific for the Messiah.

In the book of Matthew, chapter 24 verse 36, it reads; 'No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angles in heaven, nor the son, but only the Father.' So, this is undeniable proof that no one knows the day of judgement accept God alone, and this is proof that the knowledge of the Messiah was limited like the rest of the people. And God alone is the only One who has full knowledge of everything.

In the book of Matthew, chapter 26 verse 39, it reads; 'Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.' If this is true, then this individual that said this is ignorant of God's ability and he does not know that he is a slave of God and that God is the One who controls his affairs!

In the book of Matthew, chapter 27 verses 7 and 8, it reads; 'So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. That is why it has been called the Field of blood to this day.' And from this, we understand that the new Testament was not written during the time of Jesus, but rather it was written a long time after him, from tales that were stuck in the minds of the people!

In the book of Matthew, chapter 27 verse 46, they claim that Jesus cried out; 'About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"-which translates to, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

This is from the greatest proofs that the one who said this was not a believer in God! Not to mention, this person could not have been from the prophets of God; because God does not break His promise and the prophets do not doubt the promises of their Lord.

In the gospel of John chapter 14 verse 15 and 16, it reads; 'If you love me, you will obey what I command; and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever.' The scholars of Islam conclude that "another counselor" refers to Muhammad, the messenger of God, and him remaining forever refers to the legislation and the book (Qur'an) that was sent down to him.

In the book of John chapter 15 verses 26 and 27, it reads; 'When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.' It is clear that the sentence, 'I will send you' etc., has been fabricated/changed from 'God will send him to you.' And there is confirmation of this is the Qur'an Chapter 61 verse 6.

In the book of John chapter 16 verses 5 through 8, it reads; 'Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment.'

In John 16 verses 12 through 14, it reads; 'I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.'

And, in John chapter 16 verse 16, 'In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.'

The scholars have said: These descriptions that the Messiah has mentioned concerning the one who will come after him are not found in anyone except Muhammad the messenger of God. This individual that Jesus gave glad tiding about in the Christian gospel was called Parqaleeta and the later translators removed it and changed it sometimes to the spirit of truth, and sometimes to comforter, and sometimes to the holy spirit, and it is a Greek word that means one who is praised a lot and that applies to the name/word Muhammad.

In the book of John Chapter 17 verse 3, it reads; 'Now this is eternal life; that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.'

In the book of Mark chapter 12 verses 28 through 30, it reads; 'One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "of all the commandments, which is the most important? "The most important one,' answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, The Lord or God is one Lord. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with your entire mind and with all your strength.' This was the first advice given.

In Mark 12 verse 32, it reads; 'Well said, Teacher," the man replied. You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.' In this is a clear text from the Prophet of God, Jesus; that God is the only true Lord and the only deity worthy of worship, and this refutes every fabrication of the Christians that has been previously mentioned!

In Mark 12 verse 34, it reads; 'When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God.'

I say: verily the Messiah, peace be upon him, bore witness that his Lord is the only true God and there is no true god other than Him; and that the person who believes in Him as One is close to the kingdom of God. Therefore, the one who associates partners with Him or deems Him to be three is far from the kingdom of God, and whoever is far from the kingdom of God is an enemy of God.

In the book of Mark Chapter 13 verse 32, it reads; 'But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angles which are in the heaven, neither the Son, but only the Father.'

A verse similar to this has came previously in the book of Matthew, and this is exactly what the Quran speaks of concerning the hour (the day of Judgment) no one knows when it will occur except for Allah; and this confirms that Jesus is only a servant and it shows the impossibility of him being divine and destroys the myth of the trinity.

In the book of John chapter 20 verses 16 through 18, it reads; 'Jesus said to her, Mary. She turned to him and said, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus said, "do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.'

Verily, Jesus bore witness that the Father was his God and their God; and that there is no difference between him and them because they are all servants of God! Therefore, whoever believes that the Messiah is God, has disagreed with the Messiah and disagreed with all of the Messengers of God.

In Conclusion, I will prove that the story of the cross was fabricated.

The first proof: The New Testament proves that Jesus was known to them, and he used to give sermons in Masjid Aqsa which they called The Temple of Solomon, therefore there was no reason for the Jews to pay someone thirty dirham if they could go directly to him!

The second proof: They say that the twelfth disciple Judah (Judas Iscariot) took thirty dirham from the Jews to direct them to Jesus. So, when he directed them to him and they seized him, he returned the thirty dirham to them and he regretted and he freed himself from their action and then he hung himself; and all of this occurred in less than 24 hours, and in this story are contradictions which aren't hidden from anyone!

The third proof: And this is the greatest proof, rather it alone is enough to invalidate this story. It is when the Jews judged that he would be killed and they wanted the agreement of the governor Pilate, and they sent him to the governor, it reads in the book of Matthew chapter 27 verses 11 through 14, 'Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, "are you the king of the Jews?" "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. When he was accused by the chief priests and the elders, he gave no answer. Then Pilate asked him, "Don't you hear the testimony they are bringing against you?" But Jesus made no reply, not even to a single charge-to the great amazement of the governor.'

Generally, the response I receive from Christians is that Jesus wanted to be crucified in order to become a sacrifice for the people and so the people could be forgiven for their sin! If that were actually the case, why did he ask God to remove that cup from his head, meaning death? Why did he scream while he was on the cross, oh my God why have you forsaken me? How could he be silent and not clarify the truth even if the result did not exonerate him and his followers and the truth? Jesus was from the most eloquent speakers who used to speak to the people with long sermons and he filled his sermons with censuring the Jews; no one with an intellect would believe that! And we're left with a glaring factoid... with the crucifixion being a fabrication, the very foundation upon which you Christians have based your beliefs upon is destroyed!

Check mate!
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:13 PM   #257
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How many "Sons" does God have? Many people will now complain "but the Bible clearly says that Jesus is the Son of God". Well then, how many sons does God almighty have?. The Bible tells us that Jacob is God's son and firstborn: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22. Solomon is God's son "He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son": 2 Samuel 7:13-14. Ephraim is God's firstborn: "for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim ismy firstborn." Jeremiah 31:9 (who is God's firstborn?. Israel or Ephraim?). Adam is the son of God "Adam, which was the son of God." Luke 3:38. Even common people are the sons of God: "Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" Romans 8:14. Well then, is Jesus the only begotten son of God?.

Read Psalms of DAVID 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (David the king), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee".

When the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus (pbuh) he defended himself with the words of John 10:34: "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken...." referring to Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.". As we can see from these and many other verses like them, "Son of God" in the language of the Jews was a very innocent term used to describe a loyal servant of God. Grolier's encyclopedia, under the heading "Jesus Christ", says: "During his earthly life Jesus was addressed as rabbi and was regarded as a prophet. Some of his words, too, place him in the category of sage. A title of respect for a rabbi would be "my Lord." Already before Easter his followers, impressed by his authority, would mean something more than usual when they addressed him as "my Lord."....... it is unlikely that the title "Son of David" was ascribed to him or accepted by him during his earthly ministry. "Son of God," in former times a title of the Hebrew kings (Psalms 2:7), was first adopted in the post-Easter church as an equivalent of Messiah and had no metaphysical connotations (Romans 1:4). Jesus was conscious of a unique filial relationship with God, but it is uncertain whether the Father/Son language (Mark 18:32; Matt. 11:25-27 par.; John passim) goes back to Jesus himself" . There seems to be only two places in the Bible where Jesus (pbuh) refers to himself as "son of God". They are in John chapter 5 and 11. Hastings in "The dictionary of the Bible" says:
"Whether Jesus used it of himself is doubtful".

Regardless, we have already seen what is meant by this innocent title. However, Jesus is referred to as the "son of Man" (literally: "Human being") 81 times in the books of the Bible. Do Christians emphasize this aspect of Jesus?. The New Testament Greek word used for "son" are "pias" and "paida" which mean "servant", or "son in the sense of servant". These are translated to "son" in reference to Jesus and "servant" in reference to others in some translations of the Bible. Muslims are told that Jesus (pbuh) was a human being, not a god. They are told that Jesus (pbuh) continually emphasized this to his followers throughout his mission. The Gospel of Barnabas also affirms this fact. Once again, Grolier's encyclopedia says:

"...Most problematical of all is the title "Son of Man." This is the only title used repeatedly by Jesus as a self-designation, and there is no clear evidence that it was used as a title of majesty by the post-Easter church. Hence it is held by many to be authentic, since it passes the criterion of dissimilarity" (emphasis added). Is Jesus (pbuh) a divine son of God because God is his "father"?. Let us read Matthew 5:45

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven..." and

Matthew 5:48:"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." ...etc. There are countless verses in the Bible to this effect. To understand what is meant by the reference to "father" we need only read

John 8:42: "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me".

So the love of God and His prophets is what makes God someone's "father". Similarly,

John 8:44: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do".

Obviously neither the Devil nor God is the physical father of any of them. Miracles: Well then, is Jesus the son of God because he raised the dead?. If so, then what about Ezekiel who raised many more dead bodies than Jesus ever did. Ezekiel raised a whole city from the dead (Ezekiel 37:1-9) If we are looking for Godly powers and miracles as proof of godliness then what about Joshua who stopped the sun and moon for one whole day: (Joshua 10:12-13). Can anyone but God almighty do this?. Elisha raised the dead, resurrected himself, healed a leper, fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn, and healed a blind man: 2 Kings 4:35, 13:21, 5:14, 4:44, and 6:11. Elijah raised the dead, and made a bowl of flour and a jar of oil To say nothing of Moses (pbuh) and his countless miracles. Of his parting of the sea, of his changing of a stick into a serpent, of his changing of water into blood, ..etc. And on and on...... Even Jesus (pbuh) himself tells us that miracles by themselves do not prove anything: "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:20 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotater
Your first few paragraphs are dealt with in john 1:1 .
we have a perfect example in "h2o" steam has one set of characteristics
and uses , frozen water has one set of charateristics and uses , liquid
water has a different set of characteristics and uses but is all still (1) thing


1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

2. Deuteronomy 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD.

3. Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

4. 2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

5. 1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

6. 2 KINGS 5:15 — And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

7. 2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

8. 1 Chronicles 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

9. Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

10. Psalm 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

11. Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

12. Isaiah 37:16,20 — O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.

13. Isaiah43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

14. Isaiah44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

15. Isaiah 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

16. Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

17. Hosea 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.

18. Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

19. Zechariah 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

20. Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

21. John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

22. Romans 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

23. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

24. Galatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

25. Ephesians 4:6 — One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

26. 1 Timothy 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

27. 1 Timothy 2:5 — For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

28. James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Do you want me to continue. Cease and Desist immediately!

A member warned you to stop attempting to debate me... I'll just turn it up a notch and expose your religion to you.
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Last edited by NHodge; 03-29-2012 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:21 PM   #259
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Thanks for the bump Hodge!
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:26 PM   #260
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Default Re: ***Daily Devotional- JESUS died so that YOU and I can be reconciled.***

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotater
John 3:16 says begotten Son .not equal with other references to son
the son you referenced in multiple locations have different origins



You sir, are a bold faced liar and your ignorance is about to be exposed.

1. The word begotten is a fabrication.

The word begotten has been removed from all Gospels by bible scholars as fabrication after they realized that this word does not exist in the most ancient manuscript.

John A-V {3:16} For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (This word does not exist anymore in all Gospels in the RSV), so Jesus is not any more begotten by God where we find others still alleged to be begotten sons of God according to the bible. examples:

David was a begotten son of God long before Jesus (according to the bible). Psalms A-V {2:7} I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Israel was a begotten son of God long before Jesus (according to the bible). Exodus A-V {4:22} And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel[is] my son, [even] my firstborn:

So the term Son of God in the language of the Jews means godly person not actual son of God and does not mean divinity at all, examples:

All Jews are sons of God (according to the bible). Psalms A-V {82:6} I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.

All those who follow the spirit of God are sons of God (according to the bible). Romans A-V {8:14} For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:27 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw 275 View Post
our nation is founded on and by JESUS CHRIST
I must've missed that part in the Constitution. Want to point that out for me? You might want to check out Article XI of the Treaty of Tripoli.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:28 PM   #262
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Default Re: ***Daily Devotional- JESUS died so that YOU and I can be reconciled.***

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Thanks for the bump Hodge!
No problem J! Gotta keep this one and the other one at the top!
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:29 PM   #263
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Default Re: ***Daily Devotional- JESUS died so that YOU and I can be reconciled.***

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I must've missed that part in the Constitution. Want to point that out for me? You might want to check out Article XI of the Treaty of Tripoli.
Dead in the Mouf! Bam!
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:45 PM   #264
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Post 198! .... It's from a Christian! Lol!

Below is in response to the question posted by gman7.0 in regards to whether I had refuted the Trinity!

According to the definition of the Trinity, the Father, Son, and holy spirit are coequal, coeternal, and coessential. In this refutation, coequality will be discussed and compared to the Scriptures to see if this concept is biblical. First, it is necessary to mention how the Trinity speaks to the issue of equality within the Godhead:

“The Christian idea of the Trinity may be summed up in the familiar words: ‘The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. The Godhead of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one, the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. And in this Trinity none is afore or after other: none is greater or less than another, but the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.’”
(Hastings’ Dictionary of the Bible, ed. James Hastings, Trinity, by W. H. Griffith Thomas, pg 949).

“It [the Trinity] signifies that within the one essence of the Godhead we have to distinguish three ‘persons’ who are neither three gods on the one side, not three parts or modes of God on the other, but coequally and coeternally God.” (Wycliffe Dictionary of Theology, ed. Harrison, Bromiley, and Henry, The Trinity, by Geoffrey W. Bromiley, pg 531).

The equality of the three persons of the Godhead is a necessary element of the concept of the Trinity. However, the discussion of equality between divine persons is far from straightforward. The following are biblical reasons some use to argue that the Son should be considered as coequal with the Father.

John 5:17-18
But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working."
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

Jesus had just cured the lame man on the Sabbath, and the Jews (presumably the religious leaders) were irritated by Jesus to the point of confronting him. His response was that he and his Father work on the Sabbath (i.e. healing). The Jews understood the implication to mean that Jesus was claiming equality with God. Often times (especially on radio programs), the speaker stops here without reading the next verse.

John 5:19-21
Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.
"For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel.
"For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.

Jesus’ response is firstly a denial of ultimate equality with God. In other words, the Son can do nothing on his own; he is able to do only what his Father empowers him to do. Secondly, Jesus clarifies the equality he does have with God in regards to resurrection. Since the Father has conferred upon Jesus the right to resurrect and judge, they are functionally equal with regard to this. This equality falls far short of the required “coequality” of the Trinity.

John 10:30-31
"I and the Father are one."
The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.

It is said that since Jesus and his Father are one, they share the same substance and are equal. However, again looking at the preceding verse clears up much of this misinterpretation.

John 10:27-29
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

The context focuses on how Jesus is the good shepherd (in contrast to the bad shepherds of Ezekiel 34). Jesus had just said that, as the shepherd, he keeps the sheep so that no wolf or thief can snatch them. The next verse says that also the Father (who is greater than all) keeps the sheep so that no one can snatch them out of His hand. Thus, the Son and the Father are one in that they are both working to keep the sheep. This has nothing to do with substance or equality. Furthermore, it is clear that the Father is greater than all because he gave the flock to the Son. In addition, we are to have the same sort of oneness that the Father shares with the Son:

John 17:20-22
"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;

that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;

The oneness that the Father and Son share is to be shared by the disciples as well. If the oneness spoken of is a oneness of substance, then this statement is either impossible or meaningless. It is impossible for you and me actually to share the same substance (i.e. the same human body). It is meaningless to say we should be one in substance if what is meant is sharing humanity because that is shared no matter what. The oneness in the context is unity (love of the brethren).

Now that we have taken a look at a couple of the Scriptures used to show that the Father and the Son are coequal, we will turn to consider a few Scriptures that indicate an inequality: the Father is greater than the Son.

John 14.28
"You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

In this text, Jesus clearly states that he is not equal with the Father. There is nothing in the context that would modify or change this basic statement.

1 Corinthians 11.3
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
Here, an ordering is made clear: God is the head of Christ. To be the head implies an inequality in responsibility. Jesus demonstrated this subordination many times by his words and actions, always putting his will in subjection to the Father’s (John 5:19, 30; 8.28; 12:49-50; 14:10, 31).

1 Corinthians 15:23-28
But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.

When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
At the end of Jesus’ rule (the millennium), he will hand the Kingdom over to his Father. Therefore, for all eternity, the Son will remain in subjection to the Father. If the two are coequal, then why should one be over the other for all eternity? This is an important point because even in Jesus’ exalted Kingdom glory, he is subservient to his Father.

Thus, it is clear that Jesus is not equal to the Father in knowledge. The Trinity requires equality between all members. If one is able to show from the Bible that any of the three is not equal (i.e. greater or less than) the others, then the Trinity would be defined as unscriptural. This is precisely what occurs when Jesus explicitly states, “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:2 The Trinity and John 14.28 cannot coexist as truth in the same world. One of the two must be in error. The Trinity requires equality between Father and Son, whereas the Bible plainly states an inequality.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:49 PM   #265
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Default Re: ***Daily Devotional- JESUS died so that YOU and I can be reconciled.***

In this same chapter Satan carried the Messiah (Jesus), and began transporting him from place to place, so how could Satan be able to carry the most Merciful (meaning: Allah, God), verily God is far above such a thought! (Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple (Matthew Chapter 4 verse 5)

I don't the Devil carrying Jesus out of this. Becasue he took him, does not mean physically carried. In these prior passages, he(Jesus) does not refer to himself in any capacity, Son of God or the Son of Man. All these passages illustrate is Jesus rebutting the Devils temptations with words from God. Not trying to debate with you, I just don't see what you see?
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:49 PM   #266
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Hodge, you're no scholar bro... CLICK

Your book isn't any more venerable than the Christians' book.

Did you sign up under a new account yet?
Don't forget to hit the newbie thread.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:51 PM   #267
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Default Re: ***Daily Devotional- JESUS died so that YOU and I can be reconciled.***

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Not trying to debate with you, I just don't see what you see?
Don't sweat it...he doesn't really see anything.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:05 PM   #268
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Default Re: ***Daily Devotional- JESUS died so that YOU and I can be reconciled.***

concerning the Treaty of Tripoli...........actually, the article only agrees with Outlaw 275. They would not have needed an agreement except for the fact that we were a Christian based country and they were Muslims. The article only agrees that we will not use "Christians doing business with Muslims", but The United States doing business with Tripoli, etc. You and I can conduct business without bringing up our beliefs, but that does not change them.

Last edited by west; 03-29-2012 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:05 PM   #269
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Default Re: ***Daily Devotional- JESUS died so that YOU and I can be reconciled.***

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Hodge, you're no scholar bro... CLICK

Your book isn't any more venerable than the Christians' book.

Did you sign up under a new account yet?
Don't forget to hit the newbie thread.
Bring that stuff here... Oh wait, you folks have already tried and that didn't work out! If I'm not a scholar and I'm beating a forum of Christians to death... How weak are you people?

The difference is in how we deal with what is perceived as a contradiction vs what's actually contradictions, lies, fallacies etc. Savvy?

Why would I sign up under a new name when you people can't do anything with this one?

I brought it all together for the late comers to see... It's a masterpiece! This thread is among the best examples of taking Christians to school.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:09 PM   #270
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Default Re: ***Daily Devotional- JESUS died so that YOU and I can be reconciled.***

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I don't the Devil carrying Jesus out of this. Becasue he took him, does not mean physically carried. In these prior passages, he(Jesus) does not refer to himself in any capacity, Son of God or the Son of Man. All these passages illustrate is Jesus rebutting the Devils temptations with words from God. Not trying to debate with you, I just don't see what you see?
You don't think... What does the verse say? Is it a bold faced lie? Link to a Christian scholar that shares your position. Bring forth textural proof to back your post.

You don't see what I see because you bring nothing more than your opinion to the discussion. This is sad Christians... SAD!
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