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Old 03-13-2012, 10:52 AM   #16
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Default Re: 540cid BBC street engine, which twin turbos

And if your biggest issue with a mechanical pump is quick starting on the street, add a simple electric "starter pump" that turns off once the engine is running.

That's what we did with mine and we really only used the starter pump when the car was sitting for a week. Otherwise it fires right up without even turning on the electric "helper" pump. I can show you how to plumb it up correctly if you want.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: 540cid BBC street engine, which twin turbos

I assume the mechanical pumps we are talking about are belt driven. That setup is physically difficult for a street car if you want to have things like air conditioning and a full size alternator - and having steering box conflicts due to an older car front end. It just adds to the complexity as it's not the norm. It starts to get car specific very quickly - inner fenders or not, seperate primary tubes or log style headers, etc.

I have yet to go fast though, so take this with a grain of salt...

I am shooting for 1200HP as a goal with a 540 motor, Brodix BB2x heads, 8.5:1 CR, twin turbo using:
S400SX4-75
Compressor Inlet - 5 Inch
Compressor Wheel Inducer/Exducer - 75 x 100mm with ETT
Turbine Wheel Inducer/Exducer - 96 x 87mm
Turbine Outlet - 5 Inch V-Band
Turbine Inlet - T6 Divided
Turbine A/R - 1.32
Optional 1.10 A/R available - call/Email for more info
Horsepower Rating - 500-1050

I stuck with the larger A/R thinking that the slower spool would aid in keeping traction on the street. Transmission is a 4L80e with a T-brake. My injectors are 120#s, and I realize this will be my limiting factor, but it started coming down to cost and reality of streeting 1200+HP. Mine is more of a pro-touring suspension setup, with adjustments for drag racing weight transfer. another trade off I made was a larger rear disc brake limiting me to a 17" rear wheel diameter minimum when drag racing. Not saying that is a deal breaker, but the street aspect start to take it's toll on track ETs, I think.

I have a single weldon electric pump. Haven't put it in yet, but I know that the noise and flow of this beast will cause heat in the fuel around town driving. I have the voltage PWM controller, but still, it's a big ass pump.

another consideration with 2000HP, if you truely plan to plant it to the ground, is to have plates on the engine, possibly front and rear. My March pulley's barely fit as is (March sucks BTW). Add in a plate and crank trigger and your better of just building the whole front bracket assembly your damn self!

Last edited by BB_Mike; 03-13-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: 540cid BBC street engine, which twin turbos

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Originally Posted by BB_Mike View Post
I assume the mechanical pumps we are talking about are belt driven. That setup is physically difficult for a street car if you want to have things like air conditioning and a full size alternator - and having steering box conflicts due to an older car front end. It just adds to the complexity as it's not the norm. It starts to get car specific very quickly - inner fenders or not, seperate primary tubes or log style headers, etc.

I have yet to go fast though, so take this with a grain of salt...

I am shooting for 1200HP as a goal with a 540 motor, Brodix BB2x heads, 8.5:1 CR, twin turbo using:
S400SX4-75
Compressor Inlet - 5 Inch
Compressor Wheel Inducer/Exducer - 75 x 100mm with ETT
Turbine Wheel Inducer/Exducer - 96 x 87mm
Turbine Outlet - 5 Inch V-Band
Turbine Inlet - T6 Divided
Turbine A/R - 1.32
Optional 1.10 A/R available - call/Email for more info
Horsepower Rating - 500-1050

I stuck with the larger A/R thinking that the slower spool would aid in keeping traction on the street. Transmission is a 4L80e with a T-brake. My injectors are 120#s, and I realize this will be my limiting factor, but it started coming down to cost and reality of streeting 1200+HP. Mine is more of a pro-touring suspension setup, with adjustments for drag racing weight transfer. another trade off I made was a larger rear disc brake limiting me to a 17" rear wheel diameter minimum when drag racing. Not saying that is a deal breaker, but the street aspect start to take it's toll on track ETs, I think.

I have a single weldon electric pump. Haven't put it in yet, but I know that the noise and flow of this beast will cause heat in the fuel around town driving. I have the voltage PWM controller, but still, it's a big ass pump.

another consideration with 2000HP, if you truely plan to plant it to the ground, is to have plates on the engine, possibly front and rear. My March pulley's barely fit as is (March sucks BTW). Add in a plate and crank trigger and your better of just building the whole front bracket assembly your damn self!
Mine is cam-driven. Some people run remote cable drives with great luck as well (I think that's even what Nascar does). The main point being that electrics (and especially two electrics) do not always die sudden deaths. Sometimes they slow down and burn up your motor before calling it quits. That's especially true with two electric pumps because they surely won't die at the same time. Sure you could rig up some complex pressure switches and what not but I prefer to keep things simple.
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: 540cid BBC street engine, which twin turbos

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So have I but doing something alone doesn't mean its right.

Two of anything when one will do is always worse than one. Makes zero sense to use two electric pumps on anything. What does being on the street have to do with it? Mechanical pumps are more reliable, quiet, and you only need one. Half your fuel supply cannot die any given moment and burn your motor up (friend burnt a motor up when his aeromotive died). All or nothing.

I run one set of 160s on my twin 88 572 big duke motor with a single mechanical fuel pump. If you need a ton more fuel than .65 bsfc, you're doing something wrong.

Going to a second set of injectors will run you an extra couple grand (box upgrade, plumbing, injector set, etc) for a less reliable and more complex system with no benefit. Now if he wanted to make 2500+ or run alcohol then multiple sets are a necessary evil in many cases.
Sorry,i don't agree on what you're saying.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: 540cid BBC street engine, which twin turbos

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Sorry,i don't agree on what you're saying.
Would you rather jump from a plane with two parachutes that both had to open in order for you to live or would you rather jump with one parachute that had to open in order for you to live?

If each chute has a 99% chance of opening, then you have a 99% chance of living with one and a 98% with two. And in reality two electric pumps are each less reliable than the single mechanical so the point would only be exaggerated in the fuel pump scenario.

We can argue injector sizing but I've seen many cars go 210+ mph with a single set of 160's at 3300+ lbs and that's way more hp than the OP is looking to make. I've also seen cars with two sets of 160's never make it to the track because they over-designed each sub-system for 3000 hp when they said they only wanted to make 2000.

Your car is sweet and I'm not taking anything away but I think there's a lot of room for improvement on a dual electric pump system and I see no need for two sets of injectors for 2000 or less hp. Heck, he could go to a single set of 212's if he felt that 160's were not enough long before he'd go to a second set of injectors. I'm not sure what there is to debate about these comments.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:26 AM   #21
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Default Re: 540cid BBC street engine, which twin turbos

I'm really not interested in arguing about the 2000hp/160# injectors, but in my opinion it will work. I'm just basing that on what I've made with smaller injectors, and also with what I've made with 160s at only 60% duty cycle.

Which EFI intake manifold do you guys recommend for this motor? Once again, running Dart CNC 335 heads.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:52 AM   #22
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Default Re: 540cid BBC street engine, which twin turbos

Do not use the edelbrock 7136 pro flow. If you do, you have to cut/weld the rear of it to be able to use a decent distributor. Or, go DIS with Coil On Plug. Gets back in to the whole crank trigger thing I mentioned above. Go with a simple 4150 style (carb') intake manifold and put a nice eblow and throttle body on it from the same supplier. You may have to weld in injector bungs, but more and more places are offering EFI converted intakes, or you can find one used. a little bead blasting and they look good as new.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:18 PM   #23
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Default Re: 540cid BBC street engine, which twin turbos

gotta agree with ltlhomer, i would rather use mechanial and i do. if one of those electric pumps goes out your fucked and you wouldnt know it. mechanical pump is quiet and can handle whatever power you can make. the worse thing that could happen with mechanial pump is the belt could come off. the car will just shut off and thats it. keep it 8 injectors...16 is upping your chances of failure.
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: 540cid BBC street engine, which twin turbos

the mechanical /cable driven pumps work great.....I had one on my car with a 144.5 inch cable.... pump was clear at the back of the car......

the thing to remember about building anything like this is there is allways more then one way to do it...... pick a system that you are comfortable with and have fun..... both andy and lilhomer have very valid points, they also have had different success stories..... and you really cant argue with the numbers BOTH , REDVICTOR and LILHOMER have done.....
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