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Old 02-25-2012, 01:26 PM   #136
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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Originally Posted by scott foxwell View Post
Well when you make comments like this:
""Production" my ass... Not a damn thing production on that motor. " and you really don't know what you're talking about it makes it sound that way. Actually it makes you sound like a whiny cry baby. "Rule interpretation" is 90% of "following the rules". Get creative, get innovative and go build something fast. Quit whining.
I was doing just that. However, when you come from NHRA Stock Eliminator (as I do), you tend to err on the side of caution rather than innovation. So the question was asked, and answered, in a way that makes it even more confusing.

And what I said was true. There isn't a damn thing production about Rains' motor. Not that it apparently matters...
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:27 PM   #137
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project



All this talk about John Raines...that looks like him at the far right.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:29 PM   #138
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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I was doing just that. However, when you come from NHRA Stock Eliminator (as I do), you tend to err on the side of caution rather than innovation. So the question was asked, and answered, in a way that makes it even more confusing.

And what I said was true. There isn't a damn thing production about Rains' motor. Not that it apparently matters...
I don't know for sure, but I think (I've heard somewhere) there was a version of the Trans Am that had the StgII block from the factory. Very limited production, yada yada...but none the less. I don't know how to verify that.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:32 PM   #139
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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I don't know for sure, but I think (I've heard somewhere) there was a version of the Trans Am that had the StgII block from the factory. Very limited production, yada yada...but none the less. I don't know how to verify that.
The only car that I'm aware of that left the factory with a stage II block was the actual '83 Riviera Indy Pace car. And it wasn't a production car, or sold to the public...
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:11 PM   #140
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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This is what happens when the center of pressure is too far forward on a car. Not saying this is what caused it, but it's a common problem.
I have always suspected that with this Mustang, however, Danny told me that he should have not trimmed the wicker-bill off on the rear spoiler, not enough rear downforce, the car went into wheel-spin in high gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTzbBRyOO0o

In-car camera of the crash. Counthow many times the sky appears in the roll-overs.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:53 PM   #141
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

Lincoln Mk VIII wheelbase is 113" vs a SN 95 mustangs of 101". I think the newer Mustangs are 107" ???


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Old 02-25-2012, 05:14 PM   #142
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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I have always suspected that with this Mustang, however, Danny told me that he should have not trimmed the wicker-bill off on the rear spoiler, not enough rear downforce, the car went into wheel-spin in high gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTzbBRyOO0o

In-car camera of the crash. Counthow many times the sky appears in the roll-overs.
That's an amazing video. I noticed a few things:
For those of us who have never driven on it, there was tire spin early, in the lower gears. I've heard making a pass described as doing the world's longest controlled burn-out.

I've been going 'round and 'round with my friend about this. He wants to put a spool in the car, I think that'd be the wrong idea.

Second thing I noticed was that his visor pops up during the crash, and then goes back down. I was surprised to see that... with all the busted glass and salt, it doesn't lend the eye protection most of us think, not to mention what would have happened if it was on fire.

Third thing I saw was that he didn't deploy the parachutes. I don't know if that would have made a difference or not. I know the HRM Camaro deployed the chutes that time he got sideways, and he credited them with righting the car and keeping it right-side-up. There's also video of a high-speed Stude (the orange one) starting to spin, and he deploys the chutes and it keeps the car on the ground. That video is interesting because you see the mountains whipping side-to-side in front of the windshield, as well as the black line. At one point you even see the cords of the parachute in front of the car.
I'm not monday-morning quarterbacking... I was just surprised to see that his first reaction wasn't to pull the chutes when the car started to come around.

The last thing I noticed was that the car wasn't even done moving, and he had the window-net down and was getting ready to bail... I thought that was EXCELLENT reaction time. calm, sure movements. I'd VERY much like to see the part of the video showing him bailing out of the vehicle. It's a pretty unique point of view of the whole thing. That's the kind of video that can be used for training new drivers.

-Brad
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:26 PM   #143
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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What's with the cage in the picture? Looks like the tubing is sectioned where it goes down to the floor from the A pillar.
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Noticed that too. Not familiar with b-ville rules on cages but on those two particular bars, I'd think you'd want to keep it as one piece ... for strength.

Good luck Jon. Cool project no doubt!!
I looked at that all real close... I believe the builder was using different lengths of tubing to build a template, to get it all fitted just right. See where the bar bends right at the dash? You can just make out the cut-line between it and the length that runs up to the roof. There's also a cut-line toward the top, to the left of the lower jaw on the light's clamp.
I think that's a pretty slick way of custom-fitting a cage to a car! Fit a bunch of small sections together just right, tack them together, then use it as a template for the one-piece bar.


That rocker box tied into the floor and rocker is nice too, especially on a unibody car. Goes way above what the rules say for roll cage mounts in a unibody. It also gives a very nice place to install the under-seat bars the rules require.

I learned a TON from those few photos, Jon... THANK YOU!

-Brad
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Last edited by Brad54; 02-25-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:28 PM   #144
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

Danny had the Mustang in our shop for about a month, putting the finishing touches on it, intercooler tank, fire system, fuel pump, etc., etc. My only role in helping out was telling Danny, "You really need to wear a HANS device in the car." At one point, for just an instant, Danny's head came down below the steering wheel. If he wasn't wearing that device he would have been hurting big time.

Now, here's the ironic part. Danny was using one of Mihovetz's MoTeC's for the engine management system. Our MoTeC has a built in traction control capability. Had we had more time (it was a serious crash and burn to get his car ready for the salt), we could have installed the pick-ups on the drive-line and eliminated the high end wheel spin issue. As it turned out, no time, no pick-ups, too much power without the traction control being hooked up, no more Mustang.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:30 PM   #145
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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Originally Posted by George Klass View Post
Danny had the Mustang in our shop for about a month, putting the finishing touches on it, intercooler tank, fire system, fuel pump, etc., etc. My only role in helping out was telling Danny, "You really need to wear a HANS device in the car." At one point, for just an instant, Danny's head came down below the steering wheel. If he wasn't wearing that device he would have been hurting big time.

Now, here's the ironic part. Danny was using one of Mihovetz's MoTeC's for the engine management system. Our MoTeC has a built in traction control capability. Had we had more time (it was a serious crash and burn to get his car ready for the salt), we could have installed the pick-ups on the drive-line and eliminated the high end wheel spin issue. As it turned out, no time, no pick-ups, too much power without the traction control being hooked up, no more Mustang.
oof...
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:41 PM   #146
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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I learned a TON from those few photos, Jon... THANK YOU!

-Brad
You're welcome...

you are right on the "template" statement.

Ron, the guy building it, learned a lot from building Paris Dakar rally cars from a blue print.

Jon
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:31 PM   #147
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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That rocker box tied into the floor and rocker is nice too, especially on a unibody car. Goes way above what the rules say for roll cage mounts in a unibody. It also gives a very nice place to install the under-seat bars the rules require.

I learned a TON from those few photos, Jon... THANK YOU!

-Brad
yes it does:



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Old 02-25-2012, 06:36 PM   #148
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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That's an amazing video. I noticed a few things:
For those of us who have never driven on it, there was tire spin early, in the lower gears. I've heard making a pass described as doing the world's longest controlled burn-out.

I've been going 'round and 'round with my friend about this. He wants to put a spool in the car, I think that'd be the wrong idea.

-Brad
In our Mustang last year we had to be careful with a little 500+ hp 302 with a C-4.

On the spool ...we've been told " Learn to drive well on the salt before you decide to put one in"

We've also been told that there are some very fast cars that don't use them they run open rear-ends.

G
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:47 PM   #149
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

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In our Mustang last year we had to be careful with a little 500+ hp 302 with a C-4.

On the spool ...we've been told " Learn to drive well on the salt before you decide to put one in"

We've also been told that there are some very fast cars that don't use them they run open rear-ends.

G
That's what I've been told too.
-Brad
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:42 PM   #150
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Default Re: Bonneville sneak peak: 2012 project

comment on post #143


I welded up my 85' T-Bird the same mannor...before it was ever a requirement.
(door bars and floor bar front to back)

reply to post 148 / 149

I for some reason had the same issue with only three wheels on ground ...setting records in PRO along with STR...back in the day.


LOL


my old dirt sprint car experience background really helps...
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