SB2.2 Heads Pros & Cons vs 18* ??? - Yellow Bullet Forums

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Old 08-20-2007, 01:32 PM   #1
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Default SB2.2 Heads Pros & Cons vs 18* ???

What are the pros & cons of a SB2 N/A setup? Big Inch (421/434), Small Inch (358/377) which would be better assuming the head is ported to match the set up? Speaking of porting, who would be good to consider?

I see some SB2 combos making good power while others do not seem up to par. I know that you can get ahold of some NASCAR take offs & you have to be carefull what you get there. What casting do you need to look for? How do you tell the "restrictor plate" heads from others?

What would it take to put a set of these on a Dart Iron Eagle block - Raised Cam, Std deck height? Besides the obvious exhaust bolt pattern and intake, is there anything that I'm over looking?

Enough of the questions for now. So ... What's the real low down on these heads compared to a 18* BMF 268 setup? Is 900 HP achievable keeping it below 8200-8500 RPM?
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:42 PM   #2
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I believe the sb2 has a special block, timing chain or belt, etc.

The 18* stuff is nice, but I dunno if you could get 900hp out of them even on a big inch motor. I believe you'd have to have some kick-ass 15* stuff or even some 13* stuff to get those kinds of numbers. And I'm not sure about keeping the rpm below that to get those numbers.

Lets see what the real pros say about this.... you have my attention.
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Old 08-20-2007, 03:13 PM   #3
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The 18* stuff is nice, but I dunno if you could get 900hp out of them even on a big inch motor. I believe you'd have to have some kick-ass 15* stuff or even some 13* stuff to get those kinds of numbers. And I'm not sure about keeping the rpm below that to get those numbers.
I agree 100%. That's why I'm looking into the SB2 stuff. Some say to be doing 900+with the SB2's & I'd guess with sheet metal intakes and 2 carbs? With the BMF 268's I believe 825-840 would be about tops without emptying the wallet on testing intakes, cams etc. I would be content with an honest 850 HP. ... Well maybe for a little while.

As far as the block. They do make a SB2 specific block, but you can also put them on a conventional 1st generation GM block. Just not sure about what lifter and rocker offsets to use.
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:01 PM   #4
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Well the first question is this going to be 1 carb, or 2 carbs, cast intake, or sheet intake? What kind of racing? Class? Open? Bracket?

what is your real budget on the induction system?
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:49 PM   #5
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We estimate my old nitrous motor with 18* heads and 14:1 comp with a single dominator made roughly 820hp. I would think just with my setup, a sheetmetal and 2 carbs would up that to around 840 or a little more. I would bet with some 15* heads that flow upwards of 400 and a 430+" motor with two carbs, 850 would be pretty realistic....but these guys here are the real pros, I'm sure they could get you to your goals alot better than me.
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:52 PM   #6
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DMC, well i cant tell you that 900 hp will be easy, because there are soooo many factors to consider,, mainly what you are doing with it, how much you want to spend , and how much maintenance your willing to do comes to mind first. but 900 hp with a single carb and cast intake is deffenately attainable.. with my 422 ci sb2 we passed the 900 hp mark at 7900 rpms, so your rpm concern is also attainable.Im not sure if you will be able to do too much with a set of nascar take-offs though( pluss most of that stuff has very small diameter valve stems and too short of valves ) you deffinately want the 011 castings (sb2.2) and will need double offset lifters for sb2 to std block, the rockers and stands are also different ( they have more offset for pushrod clearance ) and can get taller stands for the longer valves if needed.
Now there has been a lot of peeps on here who have expressed that they dont think the sb2 is the best head to be making power with but i like them..plus i dont have a whole lot of money to do something like a splayed valve or little chief set up, so they were an obvious choice for me....
Hope this helps you some, i dont want to write a whole book on here so i will stop now.
Good Luck, KEVIN
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
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I agree 100%. That's why I'm looking into the SB2 stuff. Some say to be doing 900+with the SB2's & I'd guess with sheet metal intakes and 2 carbs? With the BMF 268's I believe 825-840 would be about tops without emptying the wallet on testing intakes, cams etc. I would be content with an honest 850 HP. ... Well maybe for a little while.

As far as the block. They do make a SB2 specific block, but you can also put them on a conventional 1st generation GM block. Just not sure about what lifter and rocker offsets to use.

First. The SB2 heads were designed for a single carb, cast manifold application. You would never use them for multi carb apps, as there are other cylinder heads designed for that, such as a Little Chief, Splayed Valve head, and the SBX head from CFE.

The 900 is attainable.

But you need to stay away from the used nascar stuff. First, they are developed for small CID applications, and you will never really know what they were developed for in terms of usage. Second, you are never going to get anything 'good'.... hopefully people realize this. All that used stuff out there you see forsale was never competitive, and never likely won a race, let alone in the top half of the field..... if it ever was, it was gone thru, and all the 'goodies' were taken out. Nobody is giving that technology away at an auction.

If you are looking for 900+ you need to be looking at 400-420 inchs.

The heads need to come from a source that has good, comp eliminator experience with these heads, and or has done developement work on these heads for drag racing... there are not that many out there doing it.

The next thing will be the intake manifold. Highly critical area which will make, or break the combination for big inch small blocks. Not too many folks out there who can or will make a cast manifold right, for 900 plus hp....

The block can be conventional. But preferably you can get a Iron Eagle block with no lifter bores in it and have it machined for SB2.2...

Some of this costs more money than conventional work. But depending on the level you build it, the costs could be a wash regardless.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:32 PM   #8
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This is a really loaded question, .. cause there's so many variables.

You can make close to 900 with a REALLy good 18* head but it'll take .900"
lift cams and a TON of rpm, .. the BMF 268 would be too small,
you'd need a custom built 18* or at least a head built for that.
http://raceflowdevelopment.com/18monster.html

You can also make about the same power with nascar take off
sb2.2's, .. but to make really good power you need to use an sb2.2
ported & designed for the application. These heads are sensitive
and need to be worked by someone who knows them.

The sb2.2 will offer more average flow and more important is a
better velocity profile in the port and at valve exit into the chamber.

I think, .. properly ported, .. the SB2.2's will be faster on the track
even if you have a 15* head with similar flow numbers, ..
again the port velocity is more important then just the flow numbers.

Typical nascar take off heads that you can buy have a cross sectional
area of 2.8" to 3", .. meaning the air speed would be high or the port
too small for your application. You'll need a port with csa over 3.3" or better
at the push rod area of the port, ..
A good example is Nate Pritchett's SB2's, the guy from Pinks, ..
I have his heads here, old nascar take offs that flow 40 cfm less then
our drag race port.

The biggest difference is price, .. 18* heads can be had for around $3200
while a professionally ported set of new SB2.2's built for your application
can cost over $5500 bare, ..

Hope this helps, ..

Curtis
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:37 AM   #9
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Thanks for all the good info & advice guys!

Curtis, thanks for the link to your heads. What cast intakes do you have for them in a single carb?

My main goal would to be able to run a 1/8 mile 5.70 Index Class on Motor (In 100* high humity weather). 3000 lb Stock Suspension Mustang.

Dollar wise I believe the SB2's may not be the better choice (for me anyway). Like Chris said, you don't know what your getting on a used take-off set. A new ported set would cost a good bit more and only overkill for an index class. If I could get 850 HP from a set of 18*, I think I could reach my goal providing the car works. If needed I could spray it some, but would rather do it NA.

Again, Thanks for all the input. For now, I'm carrying my tired butt to bed.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:01 AM   #10
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if u talk to the right people u can get a good heads..i just now have decided to go with sb2.2 parts instead of 23 degree heads but thats only because i'm saving a ton of cash on parts.

any head i get would go to curtis for touch up..but i could get a non restrictor plate head and use it because my crank is only 3.27 stroke so with 4.155 bore that puts me at 355ci so an off the shelf cup head with a 1050 carb and good roller cam with like 13-1 comp could get me up around 870hp i would think.maybe 900 with a dry sump system.

nascar top ends can be found for like 3g's

and u would need a sb2.2 cam,valley tray,intake,lifters,rockers,piston,headers for one of these engines
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:16 AM   #11
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Keep in mind the intake manifold. The cylinder heads are not on the engine all by themselves.

A good wedge head with the right cast intake work is capable of 1000 hp, single carb.
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:14 AM   #12
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Chris is dead on about intakes. I was told by my engine guy that the intake is the biggest restriction. If you are using a cast/single carb, you will only allow so much flow, regardless of how much the head can flow. That is the bottleneck.
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:45 AM   #13
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The latest intakes out there for the SB2's, and some that aren't made for SB2's....... are better pieces than was previously available. You can cut them up or have someone cut them up and come up with good stuff.

In the end it comes down to what you want to spend.... which, starts at your goals.

Still say for most of the sportsman type, guys playing around it's very difficult to beat a good wedge head, and a good wedge intake for a SBC.
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
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The block can be conventional. But preferably you can get a Iron Eagle block with no lifter bores in it and have it machined for SB2.2...
You can special order a block from Dart with no lifter bore holes and let your machine shop machine them. It will take several extra weeks. They can also machine the lifter bore pattern for a SB2.2 head if you want. Again, it takes several extra weeks as it is special order. I believe they charge $550 extra. If you want the holes bushed, they will machine the bores and bush them for $1000 extra.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko View Post
Keep in mind the intake manifold. The cylinder heads are not on the engine all by themselves.

A good wedge head with the right cast intake work is capable of 1000 hp, single carb.
that brings the ? of who makes the best intake for these engines.

i remember u saying if u where doing a single carb engine that has to use a cast intake then u would do a sb2.2 and if u could do 2 carbs and sheet metal it would be splayed valve heads

but what intake is the best sb2.2 one and same goes for a wedge head..these would be off the shelf intakes fully ported..seeing this thread is more along the lines of sports man racers?
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