custom rifle build?

[snakeyes]

Originally Posted by kountryboy2

Gary, someday you need to get catch up to date and use n133 and n135 in a 223.than you will probley never use your above listed powders again

One of these days! I went thru a spell when 2015 was the do all powder for me, and then it was this and that. Brother's got me shooting H335 again (well he gave me about ten pounds of the stuff). How well the the N133 and N135 meter? I can throw H335 withing a tenth and a half grain all day long out of my Harrel or Lyman.
gary

[snakeyes]

Originally Posted by kountryboy2

Greg, there are lots of good benchrest shooters in your neck of the woods. I believe most of the 6ppc have barrels around 21 1/2 to do just like you pointed out,to make weight.

my comments had nothing todo with benchrest shooting, but just how much barrel do you really need to burn all the powder you can cram in a .223 case. Add this plus the rigidity factor, and you have the gist of my comment. Plus take into fact that in the heavy weight classes they still use 21.75" barrels. Maybe it's cause they don't know anybetter? I'll take Old Bill's ideas everytime
gary

[kountryboy2]

Originally Posted by snakeyes

One of these days! I went thru a spell when 2015 was the do all powder for me, and then it was this and that. Brother's got me shooting H335 again (well he gave me about ten pounds of the stuff). How well the the N133 and N135 meter? I can throw H335 withing a tenth and a half grain all day long out of my Harrel or Lyman.
gary

n133 doesn't meter quite as well as the ball powders. With your lyman or harrel you should be close to .0002. I load more for accuratcy than speed.
I can't wait to get my hands on the new imr8208xbr powder.

[donnief]

Originally Posted by snakeyes

have you measured your velocity loss by going to a 20" barrel yet? One thing about a Savage chamber is that they do cut it a little tight, but with a slightly long throat. If you have access to a lathe you should cut about .35" off the threaded end and rechamber it to a national match with a short throat (note: you'll have to lengthen the barrel nut thread more than likely). I use fast burning ball powders mostly with the 20" barrel (H335, H322, BLC2, 2015BR [early lots seem best])
gary

Im sure he cut it down to 20" because he is using a can which in actuality he probably picked up velocity.

[snakeyes]

Originally Posted by donnief

Im sure he cut it down to 20" because he is using a can which in actuality he probably picked up velocity.

How?
gary

[snakeyes]

Originally Posted by kountryboy2

n133 doesn't meter quite as well as the ball powders. With your lyman or harrel you should be close to .0002. I load more for accuratcy than speed.
I can't wait to get my hands on the new imr8208xbr powder.

I think I'm gonna be shopping for a good used Belding & Mull this winter. Although I have a design somewhere on a 3 1/2" disc for a new measure I came up with that used a micrometer head and very reworked drill bushings. Should be able to cut anything including my fingers!
gary

[donnief]

Originally Posted by snakeyes

How?
gary

Well from the picture it looks like a savage 10fp , these come with 24" barrels ... he cut 4"s off by cutting the barrel down yet gained 8"s of Suppressor. Another big misconseption in the shooting world is a suppressor makes a rifle less accurate or slows down the velocity ..... this couldnt be farther from the truth. A suppressor actually is an addition to barrel length. It isnt in the grooves being rotated on rifleing in a suppressor but it does still have pressure channeled behind the bullet in the suppressor. This gives the bullet more fps, The longer you can keep a bullet in a barrel or velocity chamber , the faster it will go. This is the reason for the 24"-30" barrels to keep the ballistic coeficient high. In the old days when most barrels were made in a humting contour , barrel deflection was AWFUL .... thats what brought the bull contour or #7 and smaller into the equation. Barrel deflection is still there today but not as aparent as it was years ago. Anyway suppressors pick up velocity and makes guns a little more accurate due to the extra velocity it has picked up .... flatter projectile is more accurate , the more the velocity the flatter the projectile flies.

[Yullose]

Originally Posted by snakeyes

have you measured your velocity loss by going to a 20" barrel yet? One thing about a Savage chamber is that they do cut it a little tight, but with a slightly long throat. If you have access to a lathe you should cut about .35" off the threaded end and rechamber it to a national match with a short throat (note: you'll have to lengthen the barrel nut thread more than likely). I use fast burning ball powders mostly with the 20" barrel (H335, H322, BLC2, 2015BR [early lots seem best])
gary

Honestly, it never really concerned me too much... I use this rifle primarily as a suppressed paper puncher... and just didn't want 32" of steel in front of me.
Cutting the barrel to 20"... keeps overall length the same as it was without the 6" of can on the end. The other thing is... shorter barrel = stiffer barrel. The factory barrel length was 26".
I don't recall what model the rifle is... either a model 10/110 or 12/112... and I don't feel like digging the gun out to confirm one way or the other.

I just know the 'smith hacked 6" off the barrel to accomodate the 6" AAC Ranger suppressor.

Unfortunately, I haven't gotten into reloading yet... and quite frankly, I don't think I do enough shooting anymore to justify it. My ammo choices are limited to factory stuff.

Next I'd like to run through it... is the Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr stuff...

[snakeyes]

Originally Posted by donnief

Well from the picture it looks like a savage 10fp , these come with 24" barrels ... he cut 4"s off by cutting the barrel down yet gained 8"s of Suppressor. Another big misconseption in the shooting world is a suppressor makes a rifle less accurate or slows down the velocity ..... this couldnt be farther from the truth. A suppressor actually is an addition to barrel length. It isnt in the grooves being rotated on rifleing in a suppressor but it does still have pressure channeled behind the bullet in the suppressor. This gives the bullet more fps, The longer you can keep a bullet in a barrel or velocity chamber , the faster it will go. This is the reason for the 24"-30" barrels to keep the ballistic coeficient high. In the old days when most barrels were made in a humting contour , barrel deflection was AWFUL .... thats what brought the bull contour or #7 and smaller into the equation. Barrel deflection is still there today but not as aparent as it was years ago. Anyway suppressors pick up velocity and makes guns a little more accurate due to the extra velocity it has picked up .... flatter projectile is more accurate , the more the velocity the flatter the projectile flies.

well as Kountryboy can tell you, I've been known to play around with the end of a barrel a time or two. Sometimes it end up with embarassing results, and other times I'd say to my self "I did that?"

A bullet traveling thru a barrel is nothing more than an experiment in pneumatics. There is no explosion like in black powder, but a build up of gass pressures. When there is no gass the bullet ain't moving. Pressure is a direct measurment of resistence caused by friction. You could in theory do the samething with water pressure. Now when the resistence is removed the pressure falls off sharply. So I have to assume the "can" does more than one thing, and possibly a third thing if everything were near perfect. If the bullet will drop thru the "can" there is a reduction of resistence, but this isn't always bad. You see the "can" is also acting as a tuner, as well as compressing the end of the barrel ever so much. And interesting experiment would be to make a sleeve that's about 1.38" in diameter and maybe 2.5" long. Split the sleeve and rebore it with a shim inside the split to fit the barrel. Install the sleeve on the end of the barrel with about 30 inch pounds of torque. Measure the velocity gained or lost. Now tighten it up to about sixty inch pound and compair. When you find the sweet spot for velocity and torque on the clamping screws write the figures down. Now move the sleeve out about a half inch and see what it does to your group size. Go back a quarter inch and try again. Welcome to the world of tuners in the crudest form! The increase in velocity is because you've compressed the barrel bore about .00025". Another little experiment you ought to try is to make a sleeve about .38" wide by about 1.5" in diameter, and bored to fit the can's OD (do not use hard steel!). Try moving it along the can to see if your group size shrinks. If it does you just learned the lesson of barrel harmonics. Should you try this experiment, and it works for you, keep a log on your settings. They'll change with every load change (bullet/velocity and even some powders). The second tuner I built shrank the group size on a Cooper rimfire from the mid sixes down to the low twos at fifty yards. And it wasn't a good one.
gary

[nastynotch406]

bob white in nj is a benchrest shooter and gunsmith. he works with savage. look on his web shooters corner.com he can build it or get it or my have it.he is one of the biggest dealers in benchrest and varmint guns. he has built me alot of guns over the years. he knows his shit

[JonSiriusProductions]

What kind of scopes do you have on those two Savages?

[Yullose]

Originally Posted by JonSiriusProductions

What kind of scopes do you have on those two Savages?

Both are Bushnells...
I'm pretty sure the .17hmr is a 6-18x50 and the .223 is a 6-24x40.

I'd have to dig the rifles out to see what the numbers are on them for sure...

They were the best money vs performance I could find. I almost bought Nikons for them, but they were just a little too much money.

I just don't shoot often enough to justify megabucks in optics. Simmons and BSA however, are where I draw the line. Any of those I looked at were absolute garbage.