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Old 09-16-2013, 10:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

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Originally Posted by TheRevII View Post
You have to be realistic, Max. Universal Healthcare has been Democrat's holy grail for 75 years. You can call it whatever you like, but it's nothing more than a giant wealth-redistribution plan that provides tons of votes....and therefore, power....for the Democratic party. Think about it, man....if it were really a good deal - something of universal benefit to the entire country - there would be zero justification in any Republican opposing it.

There's ways to resolve the healthcare debacle without making America's affluent pay for it all. And if you think it's only Republicans throwing up objections, you haven't been paying attention lately.
This particular type of universal plan was introduced by Republicans. If in 1994 the Republicans could have voted for this plan it would have passed. The Clintons wouldn't let go of the public option and a more socialized *if you want to call it that* system.

The same people that talk the ACA down today are some of the same people that advocated for it then.

We will NEVER resolve the healthcare situation to everyone's liking. We can only hope to create a program similar to Medicare which has the most favorable rating of any government program.

We are at the beginning of a "scenario resolution" of the health care debate. You won't solve a DAMN thing unless you try. I give the Dem's props for identifying and trying.

Legislation is a two-fold deal. Those for and those against. There is many pieces of legislation the R's have passed that I didn't like and the same with the Dem's. We can set around and criticize the shit out of everything bad or recognize the things that have went well.

If the free market could have resolved the health care debacle it would have but it can't. People need to realize that there is a synergy effect for paying for those that can't pay themselves. That money comes back 10 fold. That is not a religious response that is a factual response based on results.

Ask yourself this two-fold question:

How much have the taxes you paid held you back from success?

How much have the taxes you paid contributed to your success?


Once you honestly, objectively, and without bias answer that question you will see my perspective.


You are in the car business. How many sales have you made from EIC tax returns? How many from defense contractors or people working for the government? How many to senior citizens receiving S.S. and don't have the burden of their health care costs due to Medicare?

Those single mothers who use "Daycare Services of some type" that work allowing them to purchase from you?


Think about the synergy.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

So it all don't get too twisted:

The right suggests that since they are paying for someone else that they can't spend the money themselves which creates an identical size economy. I want people to think about this for a second:

30million working or 50 million working? I'd much rather have the 50 million. Yes, those people that receive your tax dollars in the form of an EBT card are working for you. They create demand which raises prices and profits. They lead to the additional economies of scale due to the use of flat elasticity products such as natural gas, gasoline, etc. Roads, bridges, etc etc etc. They create "goodwill" allowing business to locate where otherwise wouldn't be viable/lucrative. Create a diversified workforce, etc etc etc .

Subsidizing people to work like the EIC is an EXCELLENT IDEA for the benefit of EVERYONE..............rich, poor, and in-between.

We have to properly regulate this to accomplish goals that are identified by the Red, White, and Blue.

You're in business, you KNOW how valuable image is and how much it takes monetarily to create one.
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:55 AM   #18
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

Well, allow me to address a few of your questions.

Paying taxes, as to whether it's a deterrent or a positive, all else being equal, isn't either. Example: If I earn $100 grand and pay $40K in taxes, I net $60K. If I earn $60K and my exemptions/deductions cover the taxes, I net $60K. A push. Pretty much how it's been for me most of my life. You earn more, you should pay more. I have no problem with that.

I wouldn't have voted for the ACA in 1994 any more than I'd vote for the 2013 version....and for the same reasons.

I see your point on EBT card holders 'working for me' but sorry, can't go there. I realize they 'buy' products which in turn are of benefit for the industries you mentioned, but where I bow out is a large portion of them should be paying for the products with their own dime. I'm fine with helping those who cannot help themselves and there are millions of legitimate cases. But those who are milking the system can damn well buy their own natural gas, gasoline, roads, bridges, milk, cigarettes, beer and lottery tickets. I will not willingly pay for these things for people who are fully capable of earning the money to pay for them on their own. Ever.

You cannot tax people out of a crisis, because eventually you kill off the very segment of society that holds the key to escaping it. And no matter what the benefits are, the ACA will cause those with money to pay taxes, or higher premiums, or less coverage, or something, in order to pay for healthcare for those who can't afford it or are unwilling to pay for it. That's not voodoo economics, or trickle down economics, or any other kind of economics. It's simple math. You dance, you pay the band. It's also government-forced income redistribution, despite it being wrapped up all pretty as a humanitarian program....and I am absolutely against this most basic foundation of socialism.

America isn't an unjust country by saying 'no' to some of its lower-echelon people. I jump on liberals because I honestly believe that they believe America is unfair. It's not. Its capitalistic system is beautiful when executed properly. Lots of greed, combined with lots of apathy, laziness and outright corruption, have messed it up pretty good for everyone. But the concept is not flawed.....and neither is a nanny-Government the solution.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:20 AM   #19
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

Im amazed by the whole thinly veiled revenge factor …. don’t just hand out cards like the other form of welfare …. make it so people with good health care in place get fucked
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:21 AM   #20
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

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Originally Posted by TheRevII View Post
Well, allow me to address a few of your questions.

Paying taxes, as to whether it's a deterrent or a positive, all else being equal, isn't either. Example: If I earn $100 grand and pay $40K in taxes, I net $60K. If I earn $60K and my exemptions/deductions cover the taxes, I net $60K. A push. Pretty much how it's been for me most of my life. You earn more, you should pay more. I have no problem with that.

I wouldn't have voted for the ACA in 1994 any more than I'd vote for the 2013 version....and for the same reasons.

I see your point on EBT card holders 'working for me' but sorry, can't go there. I realize they 'buy' products which in turn are of benefit for the industries you mentioned, but where I bow out is a large portion of them should be paying for the products with their own dime. I'm fine with helping those who cannot help themselves and there are millions of legitimate cases. But those who are milking the system can damn well buy their own natural gas, gasoline, roads, bridges, milk, cigarettes, beer and lottery tickets. I will not willingly pay for these things for people who are fully capable of earning the money to pay for them on their own. Ever.

You cannot tax people out of a crisis, because eventually you kill off the very segment of society that holds the key to escaping it. And no matter what the benefits are, the ACA will cause those with money to pay taxes, or higher premiums, or less coverage, or something, in order to pay for healthcare for those who can't afford it or are unwilling to pay for it. That's not voodoo economics, or trickle down economics, or any other kind of economics. It's simple math. You dance, you pay the band. It's also government-forced income redistribution, despite it being wrapped up all pretty as a humanitarian program....and I am absolutely against this most basic foundation of socialism.

America isn't an unjust country by saying 'no' to some of its lower-echelon people. I jump on liberals because I honestly believe that they believe America is unfair. It's not. Its capitalistic system is beautiful when executed properly. Lots of greed, combined with lots of apathy, laziness and outright corruption, have messed it up pretty good for everyone. But the concept is not flawed.....and neither is a nanny-Government the solution.
Nanny government isn't the solution. I agree. We must maintain a balance. Even though that balance may cause my son/daughter your son/daughter to pay on the bill. I'm pretty Conservative in life. A conservative lifestyle is what I wish for. But, I'm only one of 330million. I have to get along with the other 180 million who aren't because once they target against me/you because we speak out on items of no material importance to our conservative lifestyles we give them leverage. Look at this shit with birth control that went on with the Georgetown student. Keeping a mouth shut instead of a full fledged uprising would have taken away her 10 minutes of glory.

Probing to get a reaction is just how politics works.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:40 AM   #21
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

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When the system collapses, around 2016/2017 it'll be replaced with single payer.

There will be a pre-existing mandate, regardless of who is in the white house. Regardless of party, rep or dem, they both love a good old fahsion government growing opportunity
No it won't.

They'd need a Democrat majority again.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:02 AM   #22
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

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Originally Posted by TheRevII View Post
You have to be realistic, Max. Universal Healthcare has been Democrat's holy grail for 75 years. You can call it whatever you like, but it's nothing more than a giant wealth-redistribution plan that provides tons of votes....and therefore, power....for the Democratic party. Think about it, man....if it were really a good deal - something of universal benefit to the entire country - there would be zero justification in any Republican opposing it.

There's ways to resolve the healthcare debacle without making America's affluent pay for it all. And if you think it's only Republicans throwing up objections, you haven't been paying attention lately.
just to add to this, if it is as good as the Dems say it is, why are they exempting themselves from it?
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:02 AM   #23
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

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just to add to this, if it is as good as the Dems say it is, why are they exempting themselves from it?
When it comes to health care and pensions, all the folks in congress, Dems and Repubs, play by a different set of rules.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:04 AM   #24
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

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just to add to this, if it is as good as the Dems say it is, why are they exempting themselves from it?
Little reading to get you up to speed:

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...no-easy-escape
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:08 AM   #25
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Easy call. Obamacare will force our country into bankruptcy. Then we get another healthcare plan. I just saw where there is a 3.8% additional taxes on interest, dividends, capital gains and other gains to support Obamacare.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:16 PM   #26
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

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Easy call. Obamacare will force our country into bankruptcy. Then we get another healthcare plan. I just saw where there is a 3.8% additional taxes on interest, dividends, capital gains and other gains to support Obamacare.
What lots of working-class people don't understand is that taxes designed to affect interest, dividends, and capital gains don't just affect the 1 percenters. If you have a 401K, you're affected. Everybody who's enrolled in one of these plans just got a 3.8% tax hike.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:15 AM   #27
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

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When it comes to health care and pensions, all the folks in congress, Dems and Repubs, play by a different set of rules.
Soooooo, I guess that makes it alright and fair?
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:22 AM   #28
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the basis of 0dumbocare A. an overhaul of medicaid , so the taxpayers money goes directly to the gov , not the private insurance companies and B .is that all these illegals , who never pay hospital bills , get covered by tax dollars , so hospitals stop closing

it's all about the welfare state
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:24 AM   #29
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I have seen those threads and commented in them.


Ignorance: Doing the same thing and seeking a different result.


That's the Republican's approach to solving the health care debacle.
Actually that is the definition of socialism

It has failed, it won't work thuis time either moron
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:36 AM   #30
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Default Re: Obamacare and the Republicans...

WASHINGTON — If there was any question who’s setting the agenda and direction of the Republican Party in the House it was answered Wednesday when, after forcing Speaker John Boehner to agree to once again attempt to defund Obamacare, Rep. Steve Stockman thanked fellow Tea Partier Rep. Tom Graves — and not the man ostensibly sitting atop the GOP’s top perch.
“[Americans] want to defund ObamaCare and keep the government open. Thank you to Tom Graves and others who worked to make this happen,” Stockman said in a press release blasted out to national media. “Republicans should listen to the people who gave them control of the House to stop ObamaCare. If we don’t stop ObamaCare, voters will find someone who will.”
Stockman’s snub of Boehner was remarkable beyond the fact that he ditched the traditional approach of publicly bowing to leadership after winning a concession. As speaker, Boehner is supposed to not only set the agenda for the entire House but as the most powerful elected Republican in the country, he’s the party’s philosophical course.
But with a gang of 30 to 40 Tea Party members willing to openly defy him, Boehner finds himself very much on the outside looking in when it comes to the agenda, working overtime to contain the chaos that has become the GOP. And with conservatives forcing Boehner to swallow their demands for another vote on defunding Obamacare as the price for even considering not shutting down the government, it’s been on full display this week.
One of those conservatives, Rep. Tim Huelskamp, who has been a thorn in Boehner’s side, said that the group of members who opposed Boehner’s original plan to avoid a shutdown were becoming increasingly effective.

(Excerpt) Read more at buzzfeed.com .
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