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Liberty' Gears All Motor - Rules Update

22K views 250 replies 50 participants last post by  Butch Kemp 
#1 ·
Liberty’s Gears All Motor Rules Update – July 23, 2010

· Mufflers are optional
· BBC Conventional Head Engines – Deduct 150#
· Clutchless Transmission penalty lowered to 50# (same as our Outlaw 10.5)

One piece front end – Aftermarket front end that is all connected together (both fenders and nose).
 
#50 ·
OK, now I understand the Mufflers Optional rule....:rolleyes:

Its to drown out the sound of the bickering in the pits. :p

Honestly, I didnt want to see ANY rule changes. However, I believe it will attract more racers (new and ones that will return) and bring some of the current guys forward.

My question is: Who's going to police this shit? Is it the honor system, followed by protests? This might get ugly.....hopefully not, but could.
 
#52 ·
Wow,Wow,Wow, did I say WOW? I mean I thought Christmas in July was just a saying, but WOW! Stock type suspension DOES NOT even get the "industry standard" 50 lbs break at Milan but "conventional Head BBC's" get an "unconventional" weight break of 150 lbs and a manual transmission gets an unprecedented weight penalty of 50 lbs?????? :smt102
 
#64 ·
lets say a BES 525 that baskins car has shows up to the class what now, a 3500 legal nmca prostck car that runs 8.40s gets to drop 475lbs
but will that happen? no
 
#70 ·
Whether the SB's still need a break or not I am not going to comment on but don't be hating on the conventional BB's just because they got a much deserved break.

Even with a 150# break for conventional heads, you wont see one run away with the class when unconventional BB's with unlimited cubes that make an easy 200hp+ more are only 150lbs heavier. I think this was a move in the right direction to bring at least the BB's closer together and to bring out a few more conventional BBs out that were sitting on the sidelines previously.

As a note, I will now have to weigh exactly the same as I do at OSCA.

I am going to do my best to make it out to one of the remaining races this season although the last two conflict with the YB Nationals and Shakedown at ETown.
 
#108 ·
Matt hope to see your car out @ Milan, it looks like a bad MF'er.

On a side not from all the other comments in this thread, with a Conv. Big block, cars have to be able to get down to the minimum weight. I know i cannot get my car down there unless I redo the car or buy all fiberglass pieces for it. I know that's not going to happen. Yes some guys will show up and have that to their advantage, but some guy will show up with a purpose built small block and have that to their advantage as well.
 
#112 ·
the only thing different between me and you right now is
whos car has been on jackstands longer:smt052
 
#81 ·
The A/M class instantly has a "conventional" advantage with the stroke of a pen (keyboard)...
600" making 1225 at 3150?????? come on???? not that tough to figure out.
If most guys could put logic together and understand how much power it takes to run good e.t. anyway.!!!!!!!!
 
#82 ·
Well what's the answer Butch? Because I think weight breaks are going to hurt the class, Beyond their instant gratification.... they always do.

You would think that guys who have experience in this stuff like You, Myself, Ben, and many others could put our heads together to make the right decision for the class over and beyond what a track can do....(no offense)... but we can't seem to get beyond our own desires is the problem.
 
#83 ·
Chris.......I know we have thought alike for a long time and we both know what it takes to win...
To answer your question I did give the power to be a straight answer,.....yes thinking about everybody.
I recommended that the "conventional" big blocks get 50-75lbs.......NOT 150???
I also recommended that the clutch car get 25 or max50...................NOT 75????
And i recommended that all small blocks get 25-50 break................NOTHING????
Some people might think that im always just thinking about my "investment" or combination.... well thats not the case.
I know you have customers with both engine combinations and cant really be one sided.....and I respect that.
I have what i have and thats that.....If i had a "less than 100% max-effort car" I dont think i would have a leg to stand on...but again thats not the way I feel.
I as well as some others just cant determine how the rule changes are logical??or where the logic comes from??
We can put our heads together....easy things to tech with plain eye sight.....like conventional heads...as well as all the other visible things...(hood scoop/bars/etc....)BUT THE WEIGHT BREAKS OR ADDERS NEED TO BE CORRECT.
And i cant believe i am the one who seems to get called the "crybaby" when NEVER/EVER has a weight break come my way???
 
#85 ·
I think it is funny that when I asked if a Pontiac was a small block or big block I got flamed. Then they go out and give the BBC 150 lbs and a clutch 75lbs. Didn't BES have a 632 BBC with conventional heads and a single 4 make 1300 or 1400??? I run 8.50 in the heat with my 525 Pontiac at 3250lbs and you guys think I shoud run with the BBC, you must have fell out of a tree and hit your head on every branch on the way down.
 
#87 ·
I think it is funny that when I asked if a Pontiac was a small block or big block I got flamed. Then they go out and give the BBC 150 lbs and a clutch 75lbs. Didn't BES have a 632 BBC with conventional heads and a single 4 make 1300 or 1400???
Well nothing will happen till it shows up and then someone will realize that was the wrong move.Back and forth....here we go round the mulberry bush,the mulberry bush,the mulberry bush..........???
 
#89 ·
What about 1hp per cid over the 525? That is deffinately possible. The 525 bbc with the 355 head made 1176 with a 1150 carb and c-25. The big carb is worth 5 and the fuel is 12. So you got 18hp with 52"?? What did it average in the power band compared to the 525? When I went from a 477 to a 525 I picked up around 35 peak but 62 average. :)
 
#93 ·
Not sure on the average numbers at the moment but at peak my 577ci made 1209hp. That is with a 1250 2.125" carb and Q16. The only differences with my motor from a 525 would be a non billet crank and an internal oil pump. So I guess you are right, 18hp for 52ci, give or take a few ponies for the oil pump. That is with 385ish cc Brodix heads too. I would be real surprised to see much over 1250hp outa a 632 with conv. heads

I really do not want to argue about the rules since I have never yet ran in the class but I want to make sure things are kept real in regards to the capability of conventional heads.
 
#116 ·
for both, we all rough the feathers on the bullet
just like boxers do before the next fight:smt113
 
#123 ·
Rick, my point was not about capability, that was Bens point. My point was what will they run, and to their full potential...?

The weights are a moving target in n/a racing. Always have been. Today they are established on current technology, and current racer capability with who is attending.

Back in 2004, 2005, nobody was making a point that a BBC in NMCA Pro Stock was going to run 8.50's. The technology back then had not been pushed. So there wasn't going to be rules for the rest of the class built around 8.50 BBChev's... obviously that changed.

At one time a stock suspension was something that was limiting. Today..... not so much. :p
 
#124 ·
We'll be out for the next one if Cody dosen't hurt the engine again... Basicly when this class Started when Andy Dart went to Baxter with this Idea.... it was to have some fun due to him not being able to to make a dent in the NMCA Pro stock class..Close to home and have fun.... I think a lot of people are missing that part of the Puzzle... these days as for the rules change Milan is trying to get cars back in the field How many cars have been showing up for these races 6 was that the car count for the last one... and everyone this year.. he's trying to save the class...and if I'm wrong about the car count I know thier hasen't been a full field yet ...That is my point..... at least he's trying to save it...see ya at the race's
 
#127 ·
There were 10 or 11 cars at the last race and the one before. The first one had low count of 6 or so. Not included in that 10 were 4 missing staples of the class, Ryden, Theisen, Kemp and Sneed. Two of those (Ryden, Theisen) will be back soon, maybe next race- the other two, not sure based on comments posted here. That would or should have 14-15 cars, which is pretty good in this economy. Look at the counts in DR, they are down too. Plus theres always a few building new cars and in the we'll be there list.

Now with the conventional break, we might see a few new/different cars. I would guess it will be 14+ cars the rest of the year.
 
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