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So the dude up the street shot a guy who broke in his house....

14K views 242 replies 35 participants last post by  BC3xx0 
#1 ·
First off I don't know the people involved, just the crap I got from the news and gossip but it did happen just up the street from me.

Saturday night at midnight, a shithead walked through this guys unlocked front door. He and his wife were sleeping (don't know if on the couch, in their chairs, or bedroom) and started beating them with a chair! Somehow the homeowner got a gun and shot the shithead and himself during the struggle (non life threatening). The shithead made it out the door and died on the front yard.

The shithead was a neighbor that has been suspected in several unsuccessful burglaries and just recently moved back on the street. The shitheads wife is saying that he's mentally ill and was probably just going to their house for help! Other neighbors are saying he was drunk and went to the wrong house. Either way, he wasn't invited in and their was obviously a struggle and the homeowner felt threatened in his own house and did what he had to do.

It got me thinking though. What if a drunkguy/mentally unstable/burglar came in my house undetected while I slept and started beating the shit out of me with something? Would I be able to get to my gun? I keep my gun in the closet, with the magazine next to it, same with the shotgun. Sure, I lock my doors so it wouldn't be as quiet as what happened to this guy but what if I had the fan on and didn't hear it or some shit.

My problem lies with my kids. I have a 3 year old and a 4 month old. I can't have guns accessible. He doesn't play or come into our room unsupervised, but I can't trust him enough to keep a gun in a drawer or next to the bed. I can't even trust him to tell me he has to poop!! I've thought about one of the holsters that slip into the mattress and just put the gun away when we wake up, but sometimes he gets up in the night and comes in our room.

The only thing that comes to my mind is fortification!! What kind of things are you guys with kids doing for access to your weapons?
 
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#55 ·
In on the good shot placement. On thing if you have kids you have to educate them on firearms from a young age, and show them the results of what a firearm can do. I work in law enforcement and my girls are young and dont even look at my weapons in my house. but rule of thumb keep out of their reach and you wont have any problems, but always keep them ready to protect you family. When my girls turn 5 this year they will start to come to the range with me and start shooting a .22. Remember get them involved and they will know right from wrong.
 
#56 ·
A front door lock that is unlocked is just as good as an unloaded gun. Absophucking useless. If your defense plan for home invasion
includes a gun or a rifle, educate yourself about every aspect of that plan. How to properly store the gun. How to properly arm yourself. How to identify friend or foe. Knowing when to actually pull the trigger. Hopefully if the outcome is in your favor. What to do after the incident. God willing we all make it to that stage. There was a story and it could well be false, about a girl who wanted to surprise her parents after being away somewhere a while. So she hid in their closet.... and you can figure the rest. Just saying if shit hits the fan you have a responsibilty because you are the good guy. Finger off the trigger until target identified and then feed the hogs;)
 
#59 ·
Theres a simple solution. Layer your protection strategy for your home. Make sure that you're alerted when the person breaches the first layer, but that he still has layers to go through before he makes it into where you are. Don't think of your home defense strategy as simply one plan. Think of it as a bunch of plans, one within the other, designed to alert you and slow the intruder while you ready your defense.
 
#77 ·
I have a little more to add.

I made a mistake when I was about 11 years old. I found a revolver in a drawer with picture and stuff in it in my mom's room. I went back a couple of times to it, and was cocking, and decocking it with it still inside the drawer. The Hammer slipped off my thumb, and the gun fired into the drawer. It was a .22 and the bullet lodged in a plastic case full of pictures. I was grounded for a month at least. I was lucky I didn't shoot myself or someone else. But here's the deal. If my mom had shown me where the gun was, and told me not to touch it, because it was always loaded, I would not have been playing with it. I had not been around guns much at that age, and didn't really know what I was doing. Had I been taken out to shoot the gun. To see what the gun was capable of, and how to handle it safely, and told not to handle it in the house because it was always loaded, I feel sure this incident would have never happened. As I got older, and was educated on how to handle guns, and when to leave them alone, I had guns and ammo in my own bedroom, all the time. My mom (single mom) actually felt safer knowing my older brother and I knew how to handle guns safely, and knew how to shoot them if we had to defend our family against an intruder. I did not have ANY handguns available in my house when my two sons were young. Only the last couple of years have I kept a loaded gun where I can get to it if needed. My sons are older now, and both of them have shot and handled all the guns in our house. They know without a doubt, if they handle a gun it is to be considered loaded, and everything that goes along with that. Yes, there is always a risk of an accidental/unintentional discharge, but I trust my sons to know what they are doing, and to be responsible for their actions. They actually don't know where I keep my carry pistol anyway.(one is 20, and going to college, the other is 17, and not your typical 17yo).

I would not under any circumstances have a loaded gun out where a 3yo (or even a 15yo) could possibly get their hands on it. On the flip side, having it unavailable to you when you need it most, is the same as not having one at all. I understand and applaud what you are trying to accomplish, and it is definitely the right thing to do. The safety of your family is, and should be your #1 goal always.
 
#82 ·
This same thing could be said about somebody that got killed during a breakin because their gun was locked up and they couldn't get to it in time. You can do that all you want but I won't take that chance. I'll use other methods to keep the guns away fom kids that shouldn't have them without locking them up.
 
#85 ·
All I can do is use my personal experience and judgement when it comes to safety vs availability. I just know I hear and read hundreds of stories where children have found guns and brought them to school, stories where pissed off teenagers shot their father or family, I can go in forever. What I haven't seen or read is a story about a homeowner that was found dead next to his gun safe becuse it took 3 seconds too long to get his gun out.
 
#88 · (Edited)
You won't hear of a story like that because that's not how it will happen chances are. How much you wanna bet there have been plenty of people killed in their home during a break in, had a safe full of guns that didn't get stolen due to the safe and was not laying on the floor next to the safe where they were trying to get into it but instead were in another room. Or maybe they were outside in the yard and didn't have a gun because they were at home where all guns should be locked up in the safe. Wanna bet that's hapened?
 
#90 ·
Charlie you've got about 3 other people in 6 pages that agree with you about locking guns up. Everybody else thinks you're stupid and paranoid. You and the other three can spend all the time you want looking up news storys about break ins. I have better things to do with my time.
 
#110 ·
I stopped a guy from breaking into my house. I was alerted by my pit bull. The man originally just knocked on the door and then walked back to his car some woman was driving. The man had a 6foot steel spud bar bowing my door frame about 1 minute later. I pulled my pit back from the door. I had my Keltec in my right hand and I couldnt open the door at the dead bolt throw, too much pressure on the door. So I put my left knee into the door hard to counter the spud bar and for a split second the guy on the outside realized I was inside. So I flipped the dead bolt with left hand , reached down to turn handle and pull up the gun as the door opens the spud bar is flying off the back poorch and he is jumped off as well but looks back and sees my gun. I grabbed him and tossed him up on the hood of a car out back and yelled "your going to break into my mf'ing house?!" and then I snapped and beat his skull with my keltec cracking his skull on his left eye socket. I pulled him off the car and pushed him back, my dog right there , backed him off and into the car the woman who drove him up.
 
#111 ·
Did you call the cops?

We caught a shithead breaking in my buddies house, actually was inside the house. He got away from my buddy, but didn't realize we were 2 deep. He tried to double back around an alley when I caught him. We warmed his head to the point it was better to walk away then let justice prevail. He lives in a shitty neighborhood and the cops aren't as friendly (but I wouldn't be either if I worked in that shit hole.)

He's never had a problem with anyone breaking in after that. It's been about a year ago.
 
#117 ·
You're both wrong! Man is the ultimate predator period! Which puts this thread back on topic. You wouldn't see a cat breaking into a mans house in the middle of the night and getting it's ass shot off. ;)
Not if you take away his weapons.
 
#124 ·
I would like to state that I hunted cats till I found the one I married. Pound for Pound, she shoots better than me. So, I vote for Cats. Especially spurned cats.

Regarding the 3 second entry into a safe... I can do that easily in complete darkness going only by feel on my keypad access Liberty. Unfortunately, it is also located pretty far from the bedroom... that is why I have strategic hidden holstered weapon locations I can access quickly from any room in the house, and I practice getting them in darkness to stay proficient.

Mild Paranoia is not a bad thing especially when there really are people out to get ya!
 
#127 · (Edited)
Couple things I noticed that are just points of interest.

Cat's are generally solitary hunters... a pack of wolves wins that fight.

Wolves are Lupines and Dogs are Canines.

Wolverines are like a combination of a cat and bear.



Ligers are so big and stupid because they are defective genetically. Their Hypothalamus never stops production of the growth hormone and thus they get as big as they do... they are almost all sterile and considered obese with joint and back problems. There are some exceptions.

Your mom goes to College, Chickens have large Talons, and I am pretty good with nun-chucks.
 
#128 ·
Ligers are so big and stupid because they are defective genetically. Their Hypothalamus never stops production of the growth hormone and thus they get as big as they do... they are almost all sterile and considered obese with joint and back problems. There are some exceptions.

Your mom goes to College, Chickens have large Talons, and I am pretty good with nun-chucks.
Ligers are bred for their skills in magic.
 
#133 ·
this has been a real good thread...

boundary layers is a good deffensive tactic for sure and one I use for my property and home..

some guys have never experienced a break in or a threat to where a weapon would be the last line of defense..

around 33 years ago I lived alone in a 3 story appartment building being on the 3rd floor.. at the time I owned several weapons in various calibers and was an avid shooter..
I was introduced to a fella that needed electrical work in his home and I was contracted as a side job...turns out this guy was a total nut case...I did the work as expected and was payed..some of the work entailed brick work which I roughed the electrical in for..the brick layers had just left and this guy calls me and informs me of the work and wants me back NOW to install this heavy exhaust hood which mounts on the brick..I informed him that the mortar needs a few days to set before I can finish up...
he gets very belligerent with me on the phone demanding his money back...I told him no as he still owed me money so lets call it even and leave me alone..with that I hung up...he kept calling..

finaly I was awoken out of a nap from this guy pounding on my door screaming that he wants his lousy 75 bucks back for a $150 job...I didnt answer the door..he went away...thats was around 8:30pm...

around 11:30pm I was waken by noises of someone trying to break in...I can hear a screw driver trying to force the door ajar..( I was a lite sleeper then)..

I imediately pulled out most of my guns and loaded...I had a 9mm that I kept loaded at all times but I wasnt sure if that would be enough...so I loaded a .44 mag...357mag..asorted 22's and my 9mm already to go...thoughts went thru my mind in blistering patterns like..which caliber to shoot this guy with...will it go thru him and kill my neighbor?..so mili seconds later I had the police on the phone...

they caught this guy red handed with a .357 in his belt...the police detective sees all my weapons out ready to go and one in my belt...what he said to me I never forgot(I was 26 at the time)..he said: make sure you shoot him in the frontal area, never in the back or sides and must show threat to do bodily harm....since they caught the guy red handed they didnt need me as a witness...he did serve time and I moved away from there..

what was my line of defence there?...well he broke thru a secure door down stairs...good thing I installed a double lock that used a 2" locking bar that went thru studs...I feel I was lucky that night ...

line of defence now...3 dogs, alarm and assorted weapons that I am completely intimate with placed in strategic locations...I have no children

hope this was a good read...blaze away
 
#136 ·
In my State, it doesn't matter where you shoot them if they break into your house. The breaking and entering is enough to show a threat, you have no duty to retreat, and you can use deadly force even to protect your property. Doesn't need to be a threat on your life. You can actually shoot someone running down the street to keep them from getting away with your property. Although I don't think I would do that myself. If they break into my house, they will be unloaded on, period. Front, back, head, ass, wherever I can hit them. :smt067

I've never been broken into, but a time or two I heard sounds that made me think I was. I had no problem finding my weapon and checking out the noise. Maybe twice in my life I've actually done this.
 
#137 ·
"ballistics report shows the intruder was placed on his knees. The entry wound was at the back and top of the skull with the exit wound thru the mouth which indicates the shooter was standing behind him pointing down" But its cool, the intruder forced his way into the house so it's justified!!

Whatever!! What state are you from???? Here in the KY, we are only allowed to defend our lives and the lives of others with deadly force and if you are defending the lives of others, you better be damn sure that their life is really in danger! We can't protect our tv's with deadly force.

If a dude crashes through my window, and sees me standing there with a weapon and says "This was a bad fucking idea" and turns to get the fuck out of there, he's no longer threatening my life and I can't use deadly force. Of course, it all comes down to what can be proven at this point and one side of the story may have went silent. But if I took a man out execution style after he was no longer a threat, that is cold blooded murder. I don't care where you live.

You might want to re check your laws.
 
#140 ·
"ballistics report shows the intruder was placed on his knees. The entry wound was at the back and top of the skull with the exit wound thru the mouth which indicates the shooter was standing behind him pointing down" But its cool, the intruder forced his way into the house so it's justified!!

Whatever!! What state are you from???? Here in the KY, we are only allowed to defend our lives and the lives of others with deadly force and if you are defending the lives of others, you better be damn sure that their life is really in danger! We can't protect our tv's with deadly force.

If a dude crashes through my window, and sees me standing there with a weapon and says "This was a bad fucking idea" and turns to get the fuck out of there, he's no longer threatening my life and I can't use deadly force. Of course, it all comes down to what can be proven at this point and one side of the story may have went silent. But if I took a man out execution style after he was no longer a threat, that is cold blooded murder. I don't care where you live.

You might want to re check your laws.

So what if?????

You order the intruder to his knees, place your firearm to the back of his head while attempting to call the police, and he starts to scramble? Like he doesn't want to go to jail. Sooooo.......in fear you shoot. On paper (in the ballistics reports) it looks like an execution.

All I'm saying is there is always differing circumstances that may or may NOT end up in the reports.

Oh yeah.....Here in Texas, we can (by law) use whatever force deemed necessary to protect our "Property" and ESPECIALLY our own lives and the lives of our loved ones....Most of which is covered by the "Castle Doctrine".

And the term "Property" is very loosely defined and wasn't given any specific monetary value. Whether it's a car, ATV, jewelry that's been passed down for generations or a Chinese made 10pc socket set......it's all "Property".

As we all saw in the "Joe Horn" case.....The same holds true if you are simply asked to "Look after my place while I'm gone will ya?".....Seems like a neighborly thing most everyone says, but it (Legally) has quite a bit of weight.
 
#138 ·
I reckon we prepare for the worst. Hope for the best, and get enough training and practice to react, but not over react to situations that don't really require deadly force.

Situational awareness is the key and is like the ounce of prevention to a pound of cure. Everything we decide has trade offs and consequences.

Can I get an amen?
 
#139 ·
I reckon we prepare for the worst. Hope for the best, and get enough training and practice to react, but not over react to situations that don't really require deadly force.

Situational awareness is the key and is like the ounce of prevention to a pound of cure. Everything we decide has trade offs and consequences.

Can I get an amen?

amen...been there
 
#147 ·
Texas Castle Doctrine:

a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor [he] reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor [himself] against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;

(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and

(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

(e) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.

(f) For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the
 
#149 ·
The Self Defense Laws Of Texas
The Texas Constitution
Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
"Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime."
Self Defense Statutes
(Texas Penal Code)
Deadly Force to Protect Property
"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect his property to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means."
"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to prevent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, or theft during the nighttime, from escaping with the property and he reasonable believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other means; or, the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the property would expose him or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. (Nighttime is defined as the period 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.)"
Protection of the Property of Others
"A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief."
"Also, a person is justified in using force or deadly force if he reasonably believes that the third person has requested his protection of property; or he has a legal duty to protect the property; or the third person whose property he is protecting is his spouse, parent or child."
Reasonable Belief
"It is not necessary that there should be actual danger, as a person has the right to defend his life and person from apparent danger as fully and to the same extent as he would have were the danger real, as it reasonably appeared to him from his standpoint at the time."
"In fact, Sec 9.31(a) [of the Penal Code] expressly provides that a person is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary."
The Castle Doctrine is quoted a little too often as a defense (even by myself) when it is several other of the Texas laws that cover most of the stories people have heard.


As for the "Perp" that is retreating.....I believe the above laws cover that scenario as well.
In Texas, if you get caught by the owner or anyone charged with aiding in the security of a property, you run the risk of being involved in a "Justifiable Homicide". As was shown by the Joe Horn case.....And Texas also has enacted a few laws to protect the "Actor" from ANY civil action that may be brought as well..


SECTION 4. Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, is amended to read as follows:
Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A [It is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal injury or death that the] defendant who uses force or[, at the time the cause of action arose, was justified in using] deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9 [Section 9.32], Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant’s [against a person who at the time of the] use of force or deadly force, as applicable [was committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant].
SECTION 5. (a) Sections 9.31 and 9.32, Penal Code, as amended by this Act, apply only to an offense committed on or after the effective date of this Act. An offense committed before the effective date of this Act is covered by the law in effect when the offense was committed, and the former law is continued in effect for this purpose. For the purposes of this subsection, an offense is committed before the effective date of this Act if any element of the offense occurs before the effective date.
(b) Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, as amended by this Act, applies only to a cause of action that accrues on or after the effective date of this Act. An action that accrued before the effective date of this Act is governed by the law in effect at the time the action accrued, and that law is continued in effect for that purpose.
SECTION 6. This Act takes effect September 1, 2007.
 
#150 · (Edited)
Im with Doug on this one. Several of my CHL instructors have verified his statements. Now I don't know about running down the street, but if they are on your property and (even fleeing) you can shoot them to stop them from leaving with your property. Note that I said shoot them to stop them, not unloading your weapon on them. But if you are a good shot, it will only take one anyway.

Now, an execution style killing.... I don't think THAT would be covered. But how many theives you know are gonna sit still while you call the cops? I highly doubt that situation would ever arise. And if it did, the "actor" could simply say the guy turned and tried to pull something out of his shirt.... thus the "actor" felt he was drawing some type of weapon and he feared for his life so he shot him.

Remember, just because there are laws protecting you doesn't mean that you will be in the clear. ANYONE can bring a case against you and the attorneys fees to show you were within your rights can be mighty costly. So I keep this in mind when deciding to use deadly force. If they are stealing some $100 radio or easily replaceable stuff, I'd probably just fire a round into the ground to scare them...make them think twice about coming back. But breaking into my house.... that is a death sentence, end of story.
 
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