Yellow Bullet Forums banner

Barry Grant 400 -2?

10K views 67 replies 33 participants last post by  Tech @ BG 
#1 ·
Will this pump support a 1000hp NA Alchol motor?
It's possible that I have already asked this question B 4.
 
See less See more
1
#3 ·
Will this pump support a 1000hp NA Alchol motor?
It's possible that I have already asked this question B 4.
I would sell it and go with Magnafuel 500 pump.

Nothing but let downs and problems with BG pumps.

Just my input..
 
#4 ·
We had a BG400 go bad on us this weekend. It just shut off like it lost power and then would work intermittently. Now the car has an Aeromotive A2000.
 
#6 ·
We had a BG400 go bad on us this weekend. It just shut off like it lost power
The same thing happen to my BG King Sumo over the weekend..

And the worst part was when I called BG Monday, about getting it repaired..

The guy on the other end told me sure they can repair it.. But it will take "at least" 3 months.. And that as a matter of fact.. They have other peoples fuel pumps there to be repaired, that have been there for over a year..

He really really and truely sounded like he didn't want my business.. And you know what.. They'll never get it again..
 
#15 ·
I've also had two BG pumps (280 and 400) and they both went bad. The 400 went bad twice, once was the seal and the other was the motor. I've had a Magnafuel and Weldon and they both lasted a lot longer then my combination did. Magnafuel was for a blow though setup and Weldon was for EFI. Now I'm stepping up HP and went belt drive. Do yourself a favor and ditch the BG and get a reliable pump.
 
#20 ·
i see a certain b/g rep that "took over and fixed these problems" has not chimed in yet .......hummmmmmmmm
 
#25 ·
I will tell you I run Barry Grant and even THAT EXACT PUMP on my Mountain Motor Pro Stock car that is making much more power ;)

I am not only a Barry Grant Distributor/Dealer I am also a customer! If you need any help please don't hesitate to let me know!
 
#26 ·
Aronson Motorsports; I am not only a Barry Grant Distributor/Dealer I am also a customer! If you need any help please don't hesitate to let me know![/QUOTE said:
Are you going to help everyone out when when the $12 (Retail) seal goes bad and it costs $125 to get it replaced at BG - because they won't sell "parts" for the pump?
No? I didn't think so. I've had a lot of electric pumps over the years and there's a better pump available, for the same money - and you can buy parts for it and fix it at the track. You may be selling BG pumps, but you are not doing your customers much of a favor by doing so.

BTW, I bet you have spare BG 400-2's in the trailer at all times too. I always had to carry a spare since I never knew when one was going to spring a leak.
 
#28 ·
Are you going to help everyone out when when the $12 (Retail) seal goes bad and it costs $125 to get it replaced at BG - because they won't sell "parts" for the pump?
No? I didn't think so. I've had a lot of electric pumps over the years and there's a better pump available, for the same money - and you can buy parts for it and fix it at the track. You may be selling BG pumps, but you are not doing your customers much of a favor by doing so.

BTW, I bet you have spare BG 400-2's in the trailer at all times too. I always had to carry a spare since I never knew when one was going to spring a leak.

First I won't argue on the internet in public with someone who doesn't post their real name in all of their posts.

But to make a point... I have had a couple of clutch customers who reset their own finger heights, and ring heights themselves after "rebuilding" it and would call me to get specs because they couldn't get it back to the right setting, but had told people I didn't know what I was doing because it was all messed up when they sent it to someone else! They didn't mention they had been running it for a season and tried to rebuild it themselves and that was why it messed up.

No part is perfect, however if you want to know what I have for spares in my trailer... I do have 1 spare pump, but then again I have a spare MSD 7530t, TurboStart 16v Battery, DJ Safety Chutes, Hose Ends, Hose, Valve Springs, etc... HECK I even have spare plastic air line for my shift, I have spares of almost everything I can afford to.... WHY? Because no part is perfect. I used to carry a spare Aeromotive pump when I ran those, I used to carry spare Magnafuel for customers too....

I do understand what you are saying, but I have had customer who have run the BG stuff for years and don't have a single problem! I mean I have customers with all sorts of different things and some have problems with everything! I have customers who could break a cast iron piss pot!!! I can understand Barry's decision to make customers return the part so that he doesn't have people blaming him for the errors that occur afterwords, but I also agree there should be a more economical way of basic repair. Until then, you can't throw an entire company under the bus when all of the competitors have their own share of problems. We are racers, we push stuff to the limit and then some! It will all break. I haven't found anything I can't break yet!!!!
 
#27 ·
Don't forget Barry Grant invented the fuel pump and if he had not then no one else ever would have. So I guess because of this and the fact that some people install them wrong and blame the pump etc. the rest of us are supposed to salute BG and not complain about anything (like thier refusal to sell parts) since we owe him our very existance LOL and if it were not for him we would all still be running big ass Stewart Warner diaphram pumps,

BZZZZZZZ Calick Calick Calick Calick...Anybody remember them bad boys LOL


Well at least that's BGs version of the story, myself I am pretty sure some one else would have invented a good pump within a few years of his introduction of the pump that started it all...but that's my opinion.
 
#29 ·
Cale the biggest problem i have seen is guys plumbing them wrong and staving pump causing cavitation which heats the pump, therfore causing a leak. I have been running a BG 220 Hot Rod on my sons street car for 8 years, plumbed as it should be though, for the 220, 10 outa tank, 8 to front of car and 10 back to tank on a bypass system. On my Race car, 400-2, 12 outa tank to filter with BG fitting to pump, 10 to BG 4 port in front which is required for 400, 8 to carb or carbs, the return is a 8, which is plumbed into tank and goes to bottom so fuel will not be aereated. I have never had a leak, a failure or a burp of any kind. Not to say that it ont fail at some point, But if plumbed right and wired right, stop running ground a mile, few inches at most, all will be fine.....
 
#32 ·
Your exactly right... Most of the time I have seen it where people either plumb things wrong, run the pump to maximum capacity or do something else that just doesn't work, but then blame it on the pump. The BG400 is a return style pump. It has an In - Out - and RETURN! You can't have the return wide open all the time with the pump operating at maximum capacity and expect it to live forever! As for seals, I have seen EVERY brand leak from seals! Brand new ones too! Put some "GOOD" fuel in those things and let it sit for a month! Long story short you can point your finger at any product and find a fault, but this has become a bandwagon thing!

I can tell you this.... I have run Aeromotive, Magnafuel, Barry Grant, and even some other stuff with customer cars, but I have never had a problem with any of them that wasn't somewhat self-induced. I mean I had a bad tire problem one time, and I didn't get on here and say all their tires were crap... I went to them explained it and saw they had a procedure in place. They were very apologetic, but like I told them... it happens! Not everything is perfect and I am not going to condemn them for one issue.

This has become a public lynching over spilled milk. My point is this. If you had or have a problem don't come on here with a fake screen name and complain and tell about how this or that product is junk. Tell your name, what you used it on, and see if it had anything to do with how you used it, also if it wasn't your fault, then talk with them directly. If the problem isn't solved to your liking, (which it won't always be) don't go on a witch hunt!
 
#38 ·
Your exactly right... Most of the time I have seen it where people either plumb things wrong, run the pump to maximum capacity or do something else that just doesn't work, but then blame it on the pump. The BG400 is a return style pump. It has an In - Out - and RETURN! You can't have the return wide open all the time with the pump operating at maximum capacity and expect it to live forever! As for seals, I have seen EVERY brand leak from seals! Brand new ones too! Put some "GOOD" fuel in those things and let it sit for a month! Long story short you can point your finger at any product and find a fault, but this has become a bandwagon thing!

I can tell you this.... I have run Aeromotive, Magnafuel, Barry Grant, and even some other stuff with customer cars, but I have never had a problem with any of them that wasn't somewhat self-induced. I mean I had a bad tire problem one time, and I didn't get on here and say all their tires were crap... I went to them explained it and saw they had a procedure in place. They were very apologetic, but like I told them... it happens! Not everything is perfect and I am not going to condemn them for one issue.

This has become a public lynching over spilled milk. My point is this. If you had or have a problem don't come on here with a fake screen name and complain and tell about how this or that product is junk. Tell your name, what you used it on, and see if it had anything to do with how you used it, also if it wasn't your fault, then talk with them directly. If the problem isn't solved to your liking, (which it won't always be) don't go on a witch hunt!
Exactly and we will help who we can but it seems that some on this board just want to post stuff to make themselves look good in front of their buddies.

Every time somebody has posted that we charged them some outrageous amount to fix their pump we have been able to go in and pull the records to find out what was posted was a lie or that a third party was involved.

Many of the other times posts are grosely exagerated to make the op look better as well.

There have been many who we have helped on here with legitimate problems whether brought on by themselves , products wearing over time and even some product issues and for those we will continue.
 
#35 ·
Like was said.. Anything mechanical can fail.. Even with proper use..

The part that bugged the hell out of me with BG is.. They told me that it would be "at the very least" 3 months before they could repair my pump.. And they strongly hinted that it would probably take longer than that.. And when I tried to appeal to them that I couldn't let my race car sit all summer, waiting on a pump.. Their attitude was.. You do what you gotta do !!

After seeing that I had no options in dealing with Barry Grant.. I tried to repair the pump myself.. Carefully documenting shim placement as I took it apart..

Other than wear marks on the gears, nothing seemed out of place.. So I cleaned the electric motors commutator.. And verified the brushes were making good connections..

After I put it back together I primed it up, put the intake in a jug of fuel, and put power to it.. It fired up and was pumping like a champ, into an open container..

So I re-installed it in my car.. And cycled my key.. My engine management will only run the pump for a few seconds if the engine is not started.. On the first cycle it got up to about 10 psi on my fuel pressure gauge, while filling the system.. On the second cycle it got up to about 35 psi.. Then there was a click, and it locked up again..

I've got this pump mounted in it's own cradle on rubber isolators.. Just below the height of my fuel cell fitting.. It has a 12AN line from the cell to the pump..With power to it from "two" relays (I use to run twin pumps).. And a 10 gage wire to a chassis ground about 4 inches away.. The same chassis ground my battery goes to..

I run Q16 fuel.. So every off season I would drain my fuel system.. Clean the filter in the pump.. And fill my cell with regular unleaded and some Lucas injector lubricant.. Over the winter, on warm days.. I'd start the car up, and run it for about 5 minutes..

In other words "I BABIED THIS FRIGGEN PUMP" .. I'll bet it doesn't have over two or three hours of total running time..
 
#37 ·
Like was said.. Anything mechanical can fail.. Even with proper use..

The part that bugged the hell out of me with BG is.. They told me that it would be "at the very least" 3 months before they could repair my pump.. And they strongly hinted that it would probably take longer than that.. And when I tried to appeal to them that I couldn't let my race car sit all summer, waiting on a pump.. Their attitude was.. You do what you gotta do !!

After seeing that I had no options in dealing with Barry Grant.. I tried to repair the pump myself.. Carefully documenting shim placement as I took it apart..

Other than wear marks on the gears, nothing seemed out of place.. So I cleaned the electric motors commutator.. And verified the brushes were making good connections..

After I put it back together I primed it up, put the intake in a jug of fuel, and put power to it.. It fired up and was pumping like a champ, into an open container..

So I re-installed it in my car.. And cycled my key.. My engine management will only run the pump for a few seconds if the engine is not started.. On the first cycle it got up to about 10 psi on my fuel pressure gauge, while filling the system.. On the second cycle it got up to about 35 psi.. Then there was a click, and it locked up again..

I've got this pump mounted in it's own cradle on rubber isolators.. Just below the height of my fuel cell fitting.. It has a 12AN line from the cell to the pump..With power to it from "two" relays (I use to run twin pumps).. And a 10 gage wire to a chassis ground about 4 inches away.. The same chassis ground my battery goes to..

I run Q16 fuel.. So every off season I would drain my fuel system.. Clean the filter in the pump.. And fill my cell with regular unleaded and some Lucas injector lubricant.. Over the winter, on warm days.. I'd start the car up, and run it for about 5 minutes..

In other words "I BABIED THIS FRIGGEN PUMP" .. I'll bet it doesn't have over two or three hours of total running time..
If this is one of the pumps that has already been updated with the belt drive style gears it should be something we can fix on a reasonable time as long as it doesn't need something we don't have but there is no way for us to tell without looking at it. If it is one of the orig gerotor style pumps then what you were told would be correct as that entire design of pump was changed to the current twin spur style design. Can you email us a pic of the pump and I can tell.

Also depending on the usage this pump may require a heat sink [didn't see it mentioned] .
 
#60 ·
You do a search for King Sumo pumps and this is what folks are selling.. http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=16775&CtgID= Looks just like mine..

Maybe there is a large supply of these old, out dated pumps in peoples warehouses that are waiting to be sold..

The thing about the fuel pressure must have been the reason my pump failed.. I run a base fuel pressure of 42 psi.. And with my boost referenced fuel pressure regulator, upping the pressure at a 1 to 1 ratio.. At full boost I'm seeing right at 67 psi of fuel pressure..

Too bad they didn't say anything in the literature on the pump, about it being a problem running pressure that high.. Just like they didn't say anything about needing a heat sink.. If I had known those things I would have never bought a King Sumo in the first place.. Everyone that runs forced induction with EFI has their pressure regulator boost referenced..Cause when you subtract the PSI's in your intake runners.. From the PSI's in your fuel rail.. You are right back to your base fuel pressure, as seen by the injector tip..To put it in it's simplist form.. You need that to calculate your fuel delivery.. I'm sure you knew that.. I'm just curious what you told your force inducted customers to do..

On second thought.. I don't need to know what you tell your turbocharged customers to do.. I'm not going to worry about anything Barry Grant related again..

And err RIM SCREWS.. Here is a closer look so that you can see them better.. I call my rim screw setup "the poor mans bead locks".. Maybe I can afford some real bead locks, if I can quit wasting money on fuel pumps ;) ..


Just because their art work hasn't been changed doesn't mean that is what they are selling as stated that design pump hasn't been manufactured in close to 4 years and there is no overstock.

In regards to the heat sink our catalog does show this in the plumbing diagram for that pump as well as showing the pump pressure up to 75 max. The web site only shows it at 18. At 67 lbs I would not want to have that liitle of a window on pressure but then you cant write everything into a catalog description.

I'll tell you what I tell those who call with high pressure and high boost applications.... I tell them up front they need to break down and spend the money for a Weldon as it will make 100psi plus and ours is not intended for that . Not everyone out there is running 25lbs of boost however.

Fully aware of what boost referencing a regulator is all about but bottom line the pump is still having to make that much pressure to overcome it which goes back to my statement earlier that at 67psi I would not want to only have a 8 psi window.
 
#64 ·
I'll tell you what I tell those who call with high pressure and high boost applications.... I tell them up front they need to break down and spend the money for a Weldon as it will make 100psi plus and ours is not intended for that . Not everyone out there is running 25lbs of boost however.
.
I guess I'll be alrght with my Aeromotive.. At least their spec sheet says I should..

Thanks for your time and addressing these issues with me..

Brand Aeromotive
Manufacturer's Part Number 11102
Part Type Fuel Pumps, Electric External
Product Line Aeromotive Pro-Series Fuel Pumps
Summit Racing Part Number AEI-11102
Free Flow Rate 1,000 lbs./hr.
Maximum Pressure (psi) 120 psi
Inlet Size -12 AN
Inlet Quantity Single Inlet AttachmentFemale threads
Outlet Size -12 AN Outlet QuantitySingleOutlet AttachmentFemale threadsQuantitySold individually.
NotesIncludes -12 AN male adapters. Fully submersible for custom, in-tank placement.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top