Weldon 2345 pumps..

[Monty Mikho]

Will a single 2345 Weldon pump support a 422 CID SBC with a single 106MM turbo? I have two mounted in the car thinking I was going to run twins but decided to start with the single. Also what is the best way to connect two pumps together? or should I run one pump to each rail? Thanks for the help...

[BLue 01]

Why run two pumps together if one of them can support? We run a single 2345 Weldon on our car it makes 1488 RWHP with NO fuel problems yet (101mm 5.4L 4V Modular) I would rather run 1 fuel pump incase if it goes bad the car would shut off. Plus 2 fuel pumps demand too much voltage..

[sam curry]

according to weldon it will support 2500 hp with 16 volt system

[PTE Pete]

Monty,one 2345 will support aprox. 2400hp at 16.5vdc.You would have to run it at 16vdc,and you would have to watch your afr & fuel flow VERY carefully.If you would deside to run two pumps,I would run one to each rail.

[Six_Shooter]

Why run two pumps together if one of them can support? We run a single 2345 Weldon on our car it makes 1488 RWHP with fuel problems yet (101mm 5.4L 4V Modular) I would rather run 1 fuel pump incase if it goes bad the car would shut off. Plus 2 fuel pumps demand too much voltage..

I'm not trying to be a total ass here, but your just supporting the idea of running dual pumps, since you say you have fuel problems. You haven't specified the root of your fuel problems, so it could be assumed given the information that delivery and maybe not tuning of the fuel system is the cause.

Also the fact that two pumps pull more voltage than one pump, shows me you really don't know much about the electrical side of things, which could be another cause of your problems. Two pumps will draw more current but the voltage will stay the same.

I don't agree with the one pump versus two pumps in that if the single pumps dies the car would too, yes the car would probably shut off, but I don't see how this is any benefit.

In most cases plumbing two pumps into a singlke fuel system both pumps are brought together and a Y block is used to feed a single large line to the front. This will make sure that the fuel rail sees the same pressure accross all cylinders. Plumbing seperate fuel system on each side is over kill, and causes a tuning nightmare.

[chris ridge]

Monty I am sure that a single Weldon 2345 will work fine. I had a 398ci SBF with a 106mm turbo and only ran a single 2035 @ 16V . I know mine was on the edge, but I only saw 79-82 % injector duty cycle. Granted my car was not the fastest, only running 7.34 @ 198, but I didn't burn any pistons in 4 years of running with my turbo setup. If you do want to keep both pumps, but not run them at the same time, you need to run seperate #12 lines to the inlet of both pumps then a "Y" block fitting between them on the outlet side and at least a single #10 to the front of the car. Make sure that you put a fuel block off that you can open or close before the Y fitting on the pump you are not going to use so it does not see the fuel volume and pressure backing up into the outlet side of the pump. Without this you could see a fuel leak in the pump that is just along for the ride. Hope this helps somewhat.
Good luck!
CR

[Monty Mikho]

Thanks for the input guys. Originally I was only going to use a single pump for a single. After some time I figured I would switch to twins. But I didn't wanna get carried away before I got my feet wet. So yesterday I headed over to a local Weldon dealer and we started chatting. They did not believe that one will support a single turbo. I had seen other cars running a single 2345 but like anything else just because something is being used doesn't mean it is 100%. So I wanted to make sure there were no fuel issues with a single pump. Personally I would rather have only one..

[Monty Mikho]

Monty I am sure that a single Weldon 2345 will work fine. I had a 398ci SBF with a 106mm turbo and only ran a single 2035 @ 16V . I know mine was on the edge, but I only saw 79-82 % injector duty cycle. Granted my car was not the fastest, only running 7.34 @ 198, but I didn't burn any pistons in 4 years of running with my turbo setup. If you do want to keep both pumps, but not run them at the same time, you need to run seperate #12 lines to the inlet of both pumps then a "Y" block fitting between them on the outlet side and at least a single #10 to the front of the car. Make sure that you put a fuel block off that you can open or close before the Y fitting on the pump you are not going to use so it does not see the fuel volume and pressure backing up into the outlet side of the pump. Without this you could see a fuel leak in the pump that is just along for the ride. Hope this helps somewhat.
Good luck!
CR

Thanks Chris, so a single -10 line will be enough for a single pump running from the outlet to the -10 / -8 Y block to each fuel rail? Then a -8 for a return?

[BLue 01]

I'm not trying to be a total ass here, but your just supporting the idea of running dual pumps, since you say you have fuel problems. You haven't specified the root of your fuel problems, so it could be assumed given the information that delivery and maybe not tuning of the fuel system is the cause.

Also the fact that two pumps pull more voltage than one pump, shows me you really don't know much about the electrical side of things, which could be another cause of your problems. Two pumps will draw more current but the voltage will stay the same.

I don't agree with the one pump versus two pumps in that if the single pumps dies the car would too, yes the car would probably shut off, but I don't see how this is any benefit.

In most cases plumbing two pumps into a singlke fuel system both pumps are brought together and a Y block is used to feed a single large line to the front. This will make sure that the fuel rail sees the same pressure accross all cylinders. Plumbing seperate fuel system on each side is over kill, and causes a tuning nightmare.


It was a typo I meant with NO fuel problems my bad lol and about the voltage my english is not 100% so it was hard to say it but i thought u knew what i meant.. my point is if a 2345 pump is enough to supply his motor with fuel why run 2 pumps its not like if one goes bad the other will take over!:cool:

[Six_Shooter]

Well that changes the entire context then. :lol:

Yeah there is a large difference betwen voltage and current though. I'm kinda a stickler for proper terms in most things, I usually correct myself if I use the wrong term.

[chris ridge]

Thanks Chris, so a single -10 line will be enough for a single pump running from the outlet to the -10 / -8 Y block to each fuel rail? Then a -8 for a return?


That is exactly what I had setup on my car and it worked great for years!

Take care,
CR

[sam curry]

actually weldon recommends from tank to filter to pump -12 from pump to y block -10 from block -8 to rail from rail to reg -8 from reg to return-10

[chris ridge]

Actually, I had a fuel filter built into my custom fuel tank to save space then #12 to pump inlet, then #10 from pump outlet to "Y" block under the hood, then #8's to the front of both fuel rails, then #6's returning to the regulator out of the rear of both fuel rails, then a #10 return back to the tank.

It worked great! But I am sure there are several other designs that are just as effective.

Later,
CR

[Jim Monson]

I want to be like Chris. Wait! I am. Just replace the Weldon pump with a Magnafuel and you have my fuel system. You should be fine Monty. When you switch to twins we're going to talk you into a belt driven pump any way.

[Six_Shooter]

I want to be like Chris. Wait! I am. Just replace the Weldon pump with a Magnafuel and you have my fuel system. You should be fine Monty. When you switch to twins we're going to talk you into a belt driven pump any way.


SPeaking of belt driven pumps, If looked for info on them (a little), since the T-bucket that I'm putting back together uses one for the mechanical injection, and just wanted more info.

Anyway, I've only ever seen the belt driven pumps used on vehicles with mechanical injection.

What would be the benifit of using one on an EFI system?

[Jim Monson]

What would be the benifit of using one on an EFI system?

They can supply more fuel than electric pumps.

[Six_Shooter]

They can supply more fuel than electric pumps.

I'm going to need a better explaination that, since I've seen a lot of electric pumps that will supply more fuel than a lot of people could ever dream of using.

[Jim Monson]

Sorry, can't do better. I guess all the top fuel teams will be switching to electric pumps soon?

[Monty Mikho]

Thanks for all the replies guys.. I will keep the way the car ran on nitrous.. Its the same way Chris said.. :)

[Six_Shooter]

Sorry, can't do better. I guess all the top fuel teams will be switching to electric pumps soon?


:roll:

I need more detail than "Because" to understand why. I never do anything "just because everyone else is doing it".

Like I said in my last reply, there are many electric pumps that will supply more fuel than many people can use that are also electric, so there has to be another better reason, like load maybe? Using the torque that the engine is capable of supplying to a pump to pump all that fuel?

Tuning could be a nightmare, due to the varying output pressures that I see with the belt driven pumps, especially when using an EFI set-up that the maps are based (out of the box anyway) on a pretty consistant fuel pressure, that will only vary due to actual load (vacuum) independant of RPM.

[Trace Meyer]

with a belt driven fuel pump you could run off of a single battery. thats a big weight savings.

[Broke]

I was told to have a filter before and after the pump, a 10 micron and a 40 micron. Other than that, my fuel system is like everyone else's with a 2035.

[Monty Mikho]

Yep Im using the 40 micron 12" before the pump and a 8" 10 micron after the pump at the lowest point of the fuel line.. :)

[Brian Brown]

Monty,

My brother, my dad, and I have Chris Ridge's old car, and we ran the Weldon 2345 pump with the singe turbo and never had any problems. We went 7.30 at 197, but we were having serious converter problems at the time we were running the 1/4 mile stuff. We should have gone 7 teens with the single turbo setup. We have ran as fast at 160.7 mph in the 1/8th with the single 106 at 3055lbs on 10.5ws. We ran a -12 from the tank to the filter, which was connected to the pump, and then a -10 from there to the y-block at the front of the car. We ran two -8's from the y-block to the fuel rails, and then 2 -8's from the back of the fuel rails to the regulator with a -10 return. We never had any problems.

If and when you do go the twin turbo route, I would advise running a mechanical belt driven pump. This is what most of the guys are doing now, and we just put Weldon's mechanical fuel pump (made by Waterman) on our car. The only time that we had to prime it was on the first initial start. We sent our external single stage oil pump off to have it converted to mount the mechanical fuel pump on the back of it, so that we could use the mechanical pump and oil pump off of one belt. It cleans the area up and the mechanical fuel pump is VERY small. Also, the mechanical pump is alot cheaper. I think we paid around $700 for ours, and it will support up to 3,200 to 3,500 hp on gas.

[Monty Mikho]

Cool thanks for the time Brian. I will be going the same route with a single electrical and keep the other one as a backup in the trailer. I do appreciate everyones input and actually I'm glad I dont have to replumb all my fuel lines again.. :)

[Brian Brown]

Cool thanks for the time Brian. I will be going the same route with a single electrical and keep the other one as a backup in the trailer. I do appreciate everyones input and actually I'm glad I dont have to replumb all my fuel lines again.. :)

No problem Monty. A friend on mine, Jimmy Blackmon with Straightline Chassis in Georgia is running a conventional headed 540 with two PT-88's, and he is only using ONE single Weldon 2345. Jimmy qualified #4 at the $50k race in Huntsville running consistent mid 4.50s. I know the first year out with the twins that Petty/Lynch ran two 2345's, but they had to keep a close eye on the batteries, and they had to charge them every second they had a chance. Another local racer here in MS has the new weldon electric 16000-A pump. This thing is a beast and it is so loud that it drowns out the motor; I swear he needs a muffler for that thing! lol I think it weighs like 12.5 pounds. I personally would put a mechanical pump on the car when and if you go the twins route, instead of using any of the electric pumps. We had a 2345 and a 2035 for a spare. I sold both of them and put the mechanical pump on the car.

But for the single, the single 2345 will work fine. Our injector duty cycle never seen the 100's with the 2345, but I have seen some logs off of other people's cars where the injector duty cycle was so high that the injectors were almost at the point of shutting down.

[Jim Monson]

Do you need to mount the fuel cell in the front of the car to run a mechanical pump?

[Brian Brown]

Do you need to mount the fuel cell in the front of the car to run a mechanical pump?

Jim, most people are, but we didn't. Currently we still have our fuel cell in the rear. Wayne Young says he has guys doing it with no problem at all. We'll finally get to run our car this weekend if the rain holds off, so I'll let you know if we have any issues.

With this mechanical pump, we are running a -12 from the cell to the filter, and then a -12 all the way to front of the car to the bottom of the pump. We made sure that the line was mostly ran down hill to limit some issues. As of right now, all we have done is fire the car up several times, and we have spooled a few times, but currently we aren't having any issues at all with this setup. I'll let you know if we do.

Brian

[Jim Monson]

Thanks, my pump is keeping up right now but I'll go mechanical if I need more fuel. I'm sure you know what a bitch it is to fit eveything in the engine compartment with turbo's, oil pumps, water pumps, bla! Leaving the cell in the rear of the car would save me a ton of work. I like having all of the weight back there too. I've also seen more than one car stuff the nose into the wall and bust into flames with a front mounted cell.

[Maliboost]

I've also seen more than one car stuff the nose into the wall and bust into flames with a front mounted cell.

Ive often thought about that. no matter what size tube you have going around that cell, @ 200 MPH its gonna crush & fuel is going to come out of the cell onto a hot motor.


Bob

[Brian Brown]

Thanks, my pump is keeping up right now but I'll go mechanical if I need more fuel. I'm sure you know what a bitch it is to fit eveything in the engine compartment with turbo's, oil pumps, water pumps, bla! Leaving the cell in the rear of the car would save me a ton of work. I like having all of the weight back there too. I've also seen more than one car stuff the nose into the wall and bust into flames with a front mounted cell.

No doubt that fitting everything in the engine compartment on one of these things is a hassle. The fuel cell mounted in the rear better work, because after scaling the car yesterday there is no way that I'm putting the cell up front if I don't have too. When we first bought this car we could get down to 2600 and something pounds, so we had weight hung all over it to get to 3000lbs. With all the additions (bigger intercooler, new tranny setup, extra turbo, second fire system) we have added a ton of weight. Luckily, the weight fell pretty well on the corners.

Am I hijacking this thread? lol

[Jim Monson]

Am I hijacking this thread? lol

Well........let me think...........

:-hijack

[mjmotorsports1]

FYI, just got off the chassis dyno and we started with (1) Weldon 2345 which could not do the job. We had to add a Weldon 2035 in parallel with the 2345 to get enough fuel to satisy air fuel #s and injector duty cycle.

This is on a Procharger F3R SBF which consumes a ton of fuel. Weldon claims that their 2345 could support up to 2300 hp on a 16 volt system but we proved it cannot.

[Trace Meyer]

a turbo engine is not going to require nearly the same fuel as a blower engine.

[85Camaro]

Just curious what running voltage were you seeing on the logs under load with the single 2345 pump? were you holding a full 16volts? Like I say just curious...

[mjmotorsports1]

DFI data logger was at 16.2 volts. I was originally concerned about the current draw of the two pumps together but worked out okay. I ended using one big bosch 60 amp relay for both pumps.

To the previous post I do realize that turbo engines use less fuel than superchargers. I was just posting my results with weldon pumps.